Help with DS Fuel Lines
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    Default Help with DS Fuel Lines

    Hi all DS gurus...

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    I have a simple question that hopefully someone can help me with.

    I'm looking to replace the nylon fuel line that goes into the fuel tank on the D (carby).
    Does anyone know what dimension line (o.d) I need and (even better) where can I get it?
    Cheers,
    Rob

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    Fellow Frogger! mberry's Avatar
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    This would be what you're after. Couldn't find anyone else that had it.
    I would be salvaging as much of the original stuff as you can, the temptation to just go through it with all the repro. bits can yield an inferior result. Much of the repro pieces lack the quality of the originals.

    Gasoline line (nylon), Installed between tank + gasoline pump. By meters. Suitably for Citroen DS. DS requires 5000mm hose. Or. No. DX1743 DVF. Custom

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    Alternatively if you can't wait any old auto Supercheap etc has lines, just take a sample down and say give us 5m please. It'll be black, good material and off you go. A good idea for anyone with a D to update these as originals will be brittle as hell these days and could cause all kinds of major issues, fires etc...

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Alternatively if you can't wait any old auto Supercheap etc has lines, just take a sample down and say give us 5m please. It'll be black, good material and off you go. A good idea for anyone with a D to update these as originals will be brittle as hell these days and could cause all kinds of major issues, fires etc...
    Just one note: the section in the gas tank is the pain in the butt. That part has the 90* crook in it that fits down into the removable filter/drain plug. You could conceivably replace the remainder with rubber line up to the pump. If you're feeling really elegant, you could make a steel line for much of the length- just don't attach or strap to any hydraulic lines.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mberry View Post
    This would be what you're after. Couldn't find anyone else that had it.
    I would be salvaging as much of the original stuff as you can, the temptation to just go through it with all the repro. bits can yield an inferior result. Much of the repro pieces lack the quality of the originals.

    Gasoline line (nylon), Installed between tank + gasoline pump. By meters. Suitably for Citroen DS. DS requires 5000mm hose. Or. No. DX1743 DVF. Custom
    Michael is spot on here. The original stuff is really good quality and replacing the line front to back is a big job as IIRC it runs behind the front suspension arm assembly. You can join it with a piece of fuel hose and some ligarex if required. Never seen original fuel line go brittle or fail unless someone has kinked it. Resist the temptation of using standard fuel hose front to back - you have to use nylon into the tank anyway so why not all the way to the motor as Citroen intended.

    Fitting the nylon in the tank is relatively straight forward - when the tank is in place cut a 45 degree schamfer(sp?) on the end, remove the tank filter, grease up the line, put the rubber sleeve in place and then feed the line through the sleeve which goes through the chassis, into the tank pushing it through. Use a pair of needle nosed pliers through the filter hole to get it level with the bottom of the tank, otherwise it will starve for fuel when 1/4 full.

    When sourcing repro stuff which is mechanically important I tend to order it from someone who works on the cars. Sometimes there are a number of manufacturers of one part, one being poor quality and the other being much better. Someone who builds cars knows which is which.

    In addition to Michael's De Franzose suggestion, I had to replace the whole line in the 69 front to back (was butchered in a number of places) so I sourced an excellent quality reproduction hose from Andre Pohl. Darrin Brownhill from Citroen Classics is also a good source. Both build cars so have some idea as to how good some of the repro parts are.

    Cheers,

    Mark...
    Last edited by ds21bvh; 19th September 2014 at 03:34 PM.

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    I could mail you some original fuel line to prove that it does go brittle Mark!

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    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Hi Steven,
    Not doubting you - you've had that experience, I've just not seen it in mine... I think exposure to UV or heat may be an issue.?
    I just did the tank in my 71 and the original line seemed perfectly fine....
    Having now more fully experienced the variable quality in some of the repro stuff I'm always hesitant to replace original stuff unless absolutely necessary....
    Cheers,

    Mark...

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    yes the little rubber quality issue conundrum is frustrating and costly. Yep go the Franzose Rob remember to read the order description though, you'll need 5 quantity of part at €8.22 each. ie €41.10

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    Hi all and thanks for your advice...
    Maybe I should have been more specific, there's plenty of nylon hose out there I could use but I need the outer dimension so I can feed it down into the fuel tank and replace this piece only because it has deteriorated.
    Not looking to replace all the lines, just this piece.
    Any thoughts please?
    Thanks,
    Rob

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    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Would anyone perchance have a drawing/pencil sketch/simple explanation as to the path the fuel line takes from the tank to the pump?
    (on a '68 ID 19)

    It clogs - with rust. Not asking for a solution to this, it's just a detail that's puzzling me.
    If I disconnect it from the pump and put it at ground level (in a reservoir), nothing comes out.
    If I blow compressed air into the tank, fuel comes out, and keeps doing so.
    If I raise the hose and lower it again, nothing come out. Blow, it does, repeat.

    Logical explanation, it breaks siphon somewhere. I wonder where.

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    Rob: the line is same dimension as Rilsan fuel line, originally the line was continous from pick up in tank right through to pump connection hose, you need to shove app 370 mm into uptake pipe in tank from outside, so enough extra to go into rubber hose on sill wall. I don't think they actually had a clamp on the line at that end but the breather line does.

    Don, not going to siphon out without encouragement! Your rust is in the tank! I AM going to offer a solution because that's not good! taking the filter out and cleaning would be a reasonable start on this issue, jack car up, drain tank on left underside, undo bolt and catch fuel in bucket/s whatever you reckon, for filter, simply take the plug off on the right side of the tank, theres a dirty great big hole under the car to see it, 20 something hex socket, what is it? 26? The filter is made up of washers that filter the crap in the tank, have a look at how dirty it is, clean it, if its shot chuck it and buy another. I would be looking at cleaning the tank and recoating but if you do that plug up the uptake pipe because you don't want to clog it with rust proofing paint! If you have crud in the fuel its not being generated in the line. The fuel won't come out of line like drain as you mention without assistance unless it is siphoned. Thats why theres a fuel pump. As far as replacing the line goes, big job that, fiddly too, front suspension arm has to come off as Mark says, guide the line down from sill exit past brake unit into cross member on front of chassis. It has a clip to hold it onto frame too behind arm. Genuine bad design issue I think! have just abandoned this project ( can be done in the future, even though I have new line and just salvaged old line, the new Rilsan fuel line kits are two pieces joing in the right sill, you need to take the covers off, ( under door frames) to access the line.
    The new lines available are fabricated with the bends in the right places to follow the bends around frame. You really need to get yourself a manual 648. 1-2. Link: https://sites.google.com/site/citroenpublicationslist/

    you can thank Craig and Gerry for posting those on manuals thread : )

    plus thanks for reminding me to put a filter on the line to pump, forgot I have to do that!
    Cheers
    Steven
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 28th February 2015 at 10:17 AM.

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    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Yeah, well, I was just wondering about the path.
    (then I met this fairy, took me down to the pond, we had...)
    ... no, ok, real story:


    Therese, my ID 19, is a lovely car.
    She's my "interim" project (until I get Sophie fixed).
    No collector's item - bad paint job, bad upholstery (with nice covers), DY3 engine and 21 carb - Weber 28/36 DLE A1 (really goes), 205 front tires, she's a good everyday car.


    Except... the fuel tank.
    The more I drain it and change filters, the more she seems to clog up. Annoying.
    More so because, fuel line clogs up, it tends to stop on the road in obnoxious places where it takes a lot of energy for the force field to fend off the lorries... actually, she's good and so far tends to stop in decent places (well, almost) and always get me home - with some coddling - where I go and drain the tank and change/clean the filter again. It's a 21 mm. socket for the tank plug, BTW :·)


    Thing is, whats the good of having a D if, instead of driving with two fingers, one for the wheel and one for the gears, totally relaxed and listening to good music, you have to drive it white-knuckled because it may (likely) stop unexpectedly and with no music because you want to listen for coughs?


    So I'm pondering alternatives... new tank (expensive, shipping difficult to this island), plastic Zodiac tank (measures are dodgy), decanter filter in the boot with a magnet in it to boot (for the rust you know... silly but I sort of like it) 30-liter plastic tank in place of spare wheel (not really) but anyway, while I was at it, I was just wondering about the path... in case I wanted to replace the fuel line as well, or just because I was puzzled about the siphon thing.


    Now, from your answer, I see that's a difficult path too... :·/
    Oh well.
    Like the old chinaman said, if it were easy, it wouldn't be difficult...

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    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Ah, well, there is also the Swiss thing I could try, but for one thing, it's big, and for another... it's going to make more rust anyway.

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    do you know a concreter? strap the tank to a cement mixer full of pebbles run it for ages then POR 15 it or the Euro equivlant, Germans make plenty of good shid! Just saw the Swiss method! surely someone stole that from the Irish or some gypsies! what are those bare fist fighters over there called?

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    I think you could fill the tank with molasses, ( a much cheaper alternative to the good rust convertors ) leave it for a month, then re-coat the interior of the tank with POR15 or similar as Forumn suggests. It is 99.9% likely that the tank is the source of all the contamination, so you can relieve yourself of line replacement. The Rilsan line that goes into the tank has a bend from manufacture, I'm unsure how you will overcome this, ( I'm not familiar with how much bending the nylon line can handle before it strangles your flow of fuel, the Rilsan pipe does't like being bent ) unless the nylon line that has been mentioned comes with a similar bend.

    Regarding cleaning of the tank filter, if you remove the filter and submerge in a glass of Coca Cola for a few days... a week is better,

    Help with DS Fuel Lines-tankfilter.jpg

    10 days for "like new" that will sort it out, can't imagine that you need a replacement.
    Last edited by mberry; 28th February 2015 at 05:28 PM.

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    Not to contradict ; ) but molasses can do all kinds of nasty things to metal, dilution needs to be good, cheap yes but the rust treatment and coatings are to do the job specifically, molasses can be a real bastard to get out too.

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    Happy to be corrected, trying to suggest an alternative to phosphoric acid which can cost between $5-$10 a litre., where by a new tank would be the cheaper option. BTW bleach, is very good at breaking down molasses.

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    Well,
    how would you re-coat the tank without opening it?
    And I really don't want to open it. Not to mention that this is my everyday car and this is a very cold and rainy winter, so having to ride the bike is, well, cold and wet.

    Thing is, this is a funny one. The washer filter (in the tank) looks reasonably clean every time I look at it.
    If I blow it with compressed air, not much rust comes out, and it blows easy, a lot of air does.
    What I get at the carb filter and in the reservoirs I use to drain the tank is very fine dust. Not much, actually...

    What the car does, if I use it for short distances and go slow, it runs.
    If I go a few kms on the motorway, after a few days of not cleaning the lines and filters, it stops.
    More so if I accelerate.
    If I wait a few minutes it starts again and goes a few more kms... actually much less than a minute, but the longer I wait, the farther is goes. The vent at the filler cap is clean, so I guess it's the line.

    Every time I clean, I blow the line at both ends with compressed air... still, it keeps doing it, it's like it had a bottleneck somewhere that clogs easily, and the air doesn't dislodge it.

    I was hoping I could inspect/replace the line easily and test the theory.
    This doesn't seem to be the case though.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Don B. Cilly View Post
    Well,
    how would you re-coat the tank without opening it?
    And I really don't want to open it. Not to mention that this is my everyday car and this is a very cold and rainy winter, so having to ride the bike is, well, cold and wet.

    Thing is, this is a funny one. The washer filter (in the tank) looks reasonably clean every time I look at it.
    If I blow it with compressed air, not much rust comes out, and it blows easy, a lot of air does.
    What I get at the carb filter and in the reservoirs I use to drain the tank is very fine dust. Not much, actually...

    What the car does, if I use it for short distances and go slow, it runs.
    If I go a few kms on the motorway, after a few days of not cleaning the lines and filters, it stops.
    More so if I accelerate.
    If I wait a few minutes it starts again and goes a few more kms... actually much less than a minute, but the longer I wait, the farther is goes. The vent at the filler cap is clean, so I guess it's the line.

    Every time I clean, I blow the line at both ends with compressed air... still, it keeps doing it, it's like it had a bottleneck somewhere that clogs easily, and the air doesn't dislodge it.

    I was hoping I could inspect/replace the line easily and test the theory.
    This doesn't seem to be the case though.
    Don,
    It sounds like the tank is not properly venting, you drive, create a vacuum in the tank and the pump can't draw fuel. You stop for a while the vacuum subsides and you are on your way until the cycle repeats.

    Have you tried removing the large vent tube under the fuel filler and blown air back into the tank to perhaps clear a blockage?

    Cheers
    Chris
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    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    That's one of the first possibilities I explored, but if the vent at the filler cap is clean, and it's a reasonably big hole for air to go through, how can it not possibly vent?

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    To answer your original question Rob, if it still needs answering, the outside diameter is 8mm. How do I know this? Well just last week I installed an in-line electric fuel pump to assist in priming the carby bowl after prolonged period of no use and I chopped out a 20cm length of my line. I still have it on the bench and I've just popped out to the shed and measured it. It is still quite flexible, even for such a short length. Does the electric pump assist? Yep sure does, I switch it off as soon as I hear it's tone change and then turn the car over. Starts immediately, no more cranking until the battery is almost flat.
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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don B. Cilly View Post
    That's one of the first possibilities I explored, but if the vent at the filler cap is clean, and it's a reasonably big hole for air to go through, how can it not possibly vent?
    Yes hard to imagine but not impossible, and definitely something to eliminate as it fits your symptoms, have you lifted the fuel tank cover? Not likely but the rubber connector hose to the breather could be nipped closed?? Easy to check and eliminate.

    Humour me, have a look at the rubber connection from the large breather hose to the filler neck, if that rubber has perished dirt and rubber fragments could block the airway back to the tank.

    Are you sure the vent at the filler is clear, i.e. pulled it apart and cleaned?


    Cheers
    Chris
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    have you lifted the fuel tank cover?
    I have, to take measurements to see if I could find a plastic boat tank to fit

    Humour me, have a look at the rubber connection
    Ok, as soon as it stops raining... or something ;·)
    Today I'm having a serious case of the lazies.

    Are you sure the vent at the filler is clear, i.e. pulled it apart and cleaned?
    Well, let's say I can see the sky if I look through it. And I don't feel vacuums when I open it... reasonably sure.

    [EDIT] I mean, the filler cap has a hole in it, big enough.

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    My problem is long fixed thanks.
    I got a new kit from Der Franzose.

    The only real way to fix the fuel tank of rust is to have it cut open, cleaned, lead lined and soldered together again.
    Mine has been perfect since.
    Cheers,
    Rob

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    Fellow Frogger! Don B. Cilly's Avatar
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    About the Franzose kit.
    They sell you five separate bits of nylon hose, right?
    How are you supposed to join them, I wonder?
    And why not sell you a full length thing anyway, I puzzle?

    And the tank, by the time I've opened it (heard reports of them exploding after years of being empty, and filled with water), cleaned it, painted it, and soldered it... a new one is a bit less than €400, and it's new, the math (including risk, effort, and results), seems to run in favor of new.

    I also get reports of a (plastic, hey, no rust) Peugeot 205 tank that one can supposedly adapt, but when I ask for more clues, the reports dwindle to nothing.

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