Citroen DS To Lose ĎCitroení Name In 2015: Report
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    1000+ Posts edgedweller's Avatar
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    Default Citroen DS To Lose ĎCitroení Name In 2015: Report

    Citroen DS To Lose ?Citroen? Name In 2015: Report | The Motor Report

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    So PSA plans to shoot for rivalling Audi by 2020 with exciting new products in the pipeline, and, oh, yah, dropping the Citroen name.

    Screw it. Words fail me.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    1000+ Posts Andrew Ch's Avatar
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    Don't see what the problem is ? You'll still have all the other models under the Citroen name and the DS becomes the premium brand. Everyone will still know it's made by Citroen anyway. Got any better marketing ideas to produce D S sales ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ch View Post
    Don't see what the problem is ? You'll still have all the other models under the Citroen name and the DS becomes the premium brand. Everyone will still know it's made by Citroen anyway. Got any better marketing ideas to produce D S sales ?
    It makes sense to me. They sure need to do something to fire up a new image. It offends in the same way as a VW Caravelle, or that outrage of a Holden with R8 badging, but things move on.

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    the Divine is bloody ugly, looks like Batmans weekend ride. Long live the real ones....

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    the Divine is bloody ugly, looks like Batmans weekend ride. Long live the real ones....
    Spoken like a true custodian - the Divine doesn't do it for me either. I'm parading the CX this weekend in defiance. Sunny skies in Perth and the shiny, cherry red and seriously gorgeous CX certainly turns heads. The market isn't any longer about what hydraulic Citroens were all about though. It's more about selling fridges in a global war.

    I think the C6 is the last one I could be interested in, but I'd be a bit scared of the complexity at the 35 year mark, which is about where my 1979-built CX sits.

    Still, I do hope it works for them, if only out of nostalgia.
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    the Divine is bloody ugly, looks like Batmans weekend ride. Long live the real ones....
    To paraphrase Roland Bathes "The Devine has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe, just landed rather badly. . ."

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    "Dťesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ch View Post
    Don't see what the problem is ? You'll still have all the other models under the Citroen name and the DS becomes the premium brand. Everyone will still know it's made by Citroen anyway. Got any better marketing ideas to produce D S sales ?
    The problem is those geniuses thought enough of the DS moniker to use it on a range of cars, but the Citroen name wasn't good enough to even provide an undercurrent of connectivity to the company? I do not see how the two can be disconnected. If PSA wishes to become Audi France, why not drop Citroen altogether? It's apparent the corp doesn't consider the name well.

    This ploy may work well in the Chinese market, where there is still little sense of what Citroen was. But I don't believe the Western European market is going to be so easy.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    1000+ Posts Andrew Ch's Avatar
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    Seemed to work for Toyota and Lexus.....

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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ch View Post
    Seemed to work for Toyota and Lexus.....
    Toyota had nothing to lose. . .

    From my perspective PSA have turned their backs on a loyal following that will no longer feel the need to defend the Citroen brand. I certainly wouldn't recommend Citroen to a new prospect, support in Australia and around the world has been abysmal.

    How many times have I read 'hang in there' Citroen are struggling for market share and have to appeal to a wider audience whilst they develop something as extraordinary as the Traction and real DS range. Then we are told hydraulic suspension is no longer a priority because road surfaces have made suspension redundant - give me a break!

    The soul of the company is lost, the cars may be adequate but they are no longer exceptional in any way, shape or form, They will now compete with all the other adequate whitegoods available on an apparently very level playing field!

    R.I.P Citroen

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    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    I have given up on them, they do not have a clue. I took the CX to do the shopping today in defiance. It was amazing the amount of thumbs up likes I got from all types of drivers. We need another Opron.
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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ch View Post
    Seemed to work for Toyota and Lexus.....
    Toyota didn't drop the Century from their range to market the LS430.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Please correct me if I'm wrong but the Orginal DS doesn't have a Citroen badge! Well at least those built in most countries outside of the UK.

    However that said, there has been an obvious drive to divorce from Citroen's past, in a steady and progressive move towards homogenisation of product. Like modern milk products there has also been a separation and removal of fat and other traditional elements no longer considered relevant or digestible. So like homogenised and watered down milk it will be nessessary to do some clever marketing spin, like bold branding.

    Sorry Mr Tavares, there is no sofisication or French way of life in chasing the Germans for market share! Citroen was once a leader in design and revolutionary engineering. It has sadly been just a follower in the desire for profit and market share for some many years. Nothing sofisitcated about that!

    Bon voyage.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Andrew Ch View Post
    Don't see what the problem is ? You'll still have all the other models under the Citroen name and the DS becomes the premium brand. Everyone will still know it's made by Citroen anyway. Got any better marketing ideas to produce D S sales ?
    They aren't made by CitroŽn. it does not exist as an independent manufacturer any more. They are built by PSA and Dongfeng.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I think the C6 is the last one I could be interested in, but I'd be a bit scared of the complexity at the 35 year mark, which is about where my 1979-built CX sits.
    Struth the SM won't be a classic then, it will be a veteran at 80 and still look from the future. As for the DS it will be in every museum under the sun with Duck Dodgers holding a sign saying "most beautiful car of the 21st century" (& the 20th ;-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    They aren't made by CitroŽn. it does not exist as an independent manufacturer any more. They are built by PSA and Dongfeng.
    Quite so, and common in China.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -xian-taxi-4.jpg   -shaolin-citroen-2.jpg  
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    The problem is those geniuses thought enough of the DS moniker to use it on a range of cars, but the Citroen name wasn't good enough to even provide an undercurrent of connectivity to the company? I do not see how the two can be disconnected. If PSA wishes to become Audi France, why not drop Citroen altogether? It's apparent the corp doesn't consider the name well.

    This ploy may work well in the Chinese market, where there is still little sense of what Citroen was. But I don't believe the Western European market is going to be so easy.
    Maybe so. However, the future might well be that Chinese market, with Europe a diminishing proportion of the world total. They sold 12 million cars in China last year, or some such amazing number. What cars need in China is complete reliability (don't want to break down in a traffic jam, especially if it is hot and humid) and ordinary dynamics is all they need at the lowest cost it seems to me. Most driving is stationary to slow, with the odd chance to drive up to 100 kph or so on an intercity freeway of reasonable to excellent quality. Compared with this, we are spoiled rotten with the opportunity to appreciate other aspects of driving that just aren't relevant there.

    I'll keep the CX for defiance too!!
    JohnW

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Please correct me if I'm wrong but the Orginal DS doesn't have a Citroen badge! Well at least those built in most countries outside of the UK.
    But there is a Citroen badge on every DS. Those double chevrons on the trunk lid mean something. And the company NEVER denied it's heritage or it's name when marketing the D.That is what makes this current news so egregious.

    PSA didn't come up with a new name for other markets much as Toyota did for Lexus. They understood the iconography the name DS and are hoping to cash in on the dream while denying the reality.

    I know there is nothing a blowhard Yank ragestroking over the theft of an icon in my church can do to make a difference. But really guys, couldn't you at least been a little more subtle, a little more circumspect before ripping off one of the great names in automotive history and gluing it onto an overblown Peugeot?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Maybe so. However, the future might well be that Chinese market, with Europe a diminishing proportion of the world total. They sold 12 million cars in China last year, or some such amazing number. What cars need in China is complete reliability (don't want to break down in a traffic jam, especially if it is hot and humid)
    Sounds exactly the situation in Japan in the the 60s and 70s. Nothing wrong with making reliable cars, although I would not call our Citroens unreliable. Considering the distance travelled they have been very reliable.

    Trouble is they were much more than a reliable mode of transport. The holistic design that for example designed an aerodynamic body but also dealt with angle of attack issues, gave you a control system/dashboard that has not been surpassed. Maybe when the Chinese market matures we can look forward to some factors other than reliability being offered. Don't see why we can't push the market a bit, give them things they need but do not know they do. Imagine what it must have been like to drive away in your first DS, unlike any car you had every driven, you never knew a car could ride this well. The same can be said of the people moving to the CX as their first Citroen. A revelatory experience. Don't the Chinese deserve that feeling too.
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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Maybe so. However, the future might well be that Chinese market, with Europe a diminishing proportion of the world total. They sold 12 million cars in China last year, or some such amazing number. What cars need in China is complete reliability (don't want to break down in a traffic jam, especially if it is hot and humid) and ordinary dynamics is all they need at the lowest cost it seems to me. Most driving is stationary to slow, with the odd chance to drive up to 100 kph or so on an intercity freeway of reasonable to excellent quality. Compared with this, we are spoiled rotten with the opportunity to appreciate other aspects of driving that just aren't relevant there.

    I'll keep the CX for defiance too!!
    I absolutely recognize the Chinese market is important to PSA. I'm saying the new scheme of marketing strictly as a DS there should work. It is a fairly new name to that market, and the emotional baggage I'm displaying in my posts quite likely doesn't exist for the average buyer there.

    I'm just completely pissed off that they're going to actually try this world-wide. If they're going to shoot for Audi (why not top of the heap- Daimler Benz?), PSA had better lift their game in one hell of a hurry. 2020 ain't that far off. From what I keep reading on this board, that is going to be one very tall order.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    It'd be like the Cord (or Auburn) name being half-sold to an Asian interest, then an "810" moniker applied to hybrid-engined small SUVs...

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    It'd be like the Cord (or Auburn) name being half-sold to an Asian interest, then an "810" moniker applied to hybrid-engined small SUVs...
    I think I would have been ticked off in the same way. Denying your company history- or worse still, bastardizing it- is one sure way to lose it all. Pretty soon, you stand for nothing.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    I think I would have been ticked off in the same way. Denying your company history- or worse still, bastardizing it- is one sure way to lose it all. Pretty soon, you stand for nothing.
    Well, no arguments from me on that. Once Citroen no longer even had a flagship, and the 2CV end of town didn't allow for delicious but practical innovation - think of the C1, made also as a Peugeot and a Toyota in the Czech Republic if I recall correctly - what distinguished them from most others? Not much actually.

    The photo shows what I perceive as the main battleground for innovation.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -p8220218.jpg  
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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    Well, no arguments from me on that. Once Citroen no longer even had a flagship, and the 2CV end of town didn't allow for delicious but practical innovation - think of the C1, made also as a Peugeot and a Toyota in the Czech Republic if I recall correctly - what distinguished them from most others? Not much actually.

    The photo shows what I perceive as the main battleground for innovation.
    All true. The C1 or C2 (we get the Aygo) never was about denial- it's an attempt to move forward under market conditions. I can't argue about that. The 2CV is no longer practical or attainable in today's regulatory climate. Honestly the same is said for the Ur-DS. It can't meet all the regulations imposed since 1975. The market has drastically changed. The cars needed to change.

    A C6 chassis draped with the new bodywork, and still had double chevrons- that would be something for PSA to be proud of.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    Imagine what it must have been like to drive away in your first DS, unlike any car you had every driven.
    It was pretty good - and I'm still very happy with it.

    I've always found it intriguing that other supposed CitroŽn fans hate it so much.
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