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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Default CX won't start

    Some of you may have read in my previous posts that I have to move the donor, but it's decided it rather likes rusting away at its country retreat and refuses to start. Because of its remote location getting a trailer or truck to it will be rather more difficult than starting it.

    so far I have tried 'Start Ya Bastard' but that was a mistake, as it backfired and blew the plenum off.

    I have plenty of electricity with jumper attached to a running engine and I know there is spark based on the above.

    so I'm thinking there is no fuel situation. I have checked all fuses and will check the relays. I'll try to bang the fuel pump as was suggested by someone today in an attempt to release it from some sort of freeze. But that's going to be almost impossible to reach.

    Shane tells me a drill on the hydraulic pump will not work because I would need an industrial strength drill, plus i don't have 240v close by.

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    I'm thinking if it is the fuel pump that I could hook up a temporary in line pump just before the fuel rail. Is this worth trying? And what diameter is the fuel line at this section?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CX won't start-image.jpg   CX won't start-image.jpg  
    Last edited by IE23; 3rd September 2014 at 08:00 PM.


    Adrian

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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    just pop the cover off big blue and squeeze the contacts together... it'll likely just be a wiring connection to it I bet the fuel pump runs if you do this.
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    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    The car doesn't "want" to move, would you if you had such a nice view?
    (Cover the headlights so it can't see.)
    Brendan.

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    If you can jack the car up slide a square metal tube (width of the car) through the rear suspension arms between the bump stops. Not ideal yet it means you can move the car very carefully as required. Make sure the front tyres are pumped up well.
    Citroen C5 II manual '05; C4 Exculsive '07; Citroen CX2200 Pallas '76; CX2400 C-matic Pallas '78

  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Is there drops or ditches/holes that would prevent a traielr being towed over there (remember if you need to drop and axle into any sort of drain/dip to get over there, the trailers 'A' frame will get hung up). If you can get a trailer over there, just use a wank tank, creep over there in low range, load the trailers, creep back out. You'll need to pick a time when the ground isn't soft from rain (or you'll tear it all up tryiing to drag a sinking car trailer ... just 'cos it's a 4wd doesn't mean it wont just dig holes under the drive wheels 'cos the trailers got it anchored to firmly on soft ground).

    seeya
    Shane L.
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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    The CX has a jumbuck in its tuckerbag, that's why it's not cooperating.

    Agree with Shane about the fuel pump relay being a likely culprit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Is there drops or ditches/holes that would prevent a traielr being towed over there (remember if you need to drop and axle into any sort of drain/dip to get over there, the trailers 'A' frame will get hung up). If you can get a trailer over there, just use a wank tank, creep over there in low range, load the trailers, creep back out. You'll need to pick a time when the ground isn't soft from rain (or you'll tear it all up tryiing to drag a sinking car trailer ... just 'cos it's a 4wd doesn't mean it wont just dig holes under the drive wheels 'cos the trailers got it anchored to firmly on soft ground).

    seeya
    Shane L.
    Some nasty big ditches to cross, possibly too big for a trailer and last time I was there it was soggy and slippery. I had no trouble getting out in the Turbo but a mate was trapped for a long time in his Mazda, which I offered to tow out using the Turbo after his fifth attempted. (think he was enjoying the bush bashing in the mud too much).


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  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Oh gee's, it's going to have to be driven out then. CX's have exception grip, your entire drivetrain is swinging over the driving wheels. I towed my father huge 3ton 2x4 twin cab turbo diesel ute thing back to the drive a couple of times at my place with the CX.... The CX drives over the same ground as the ute ... towing it without any wheel slip... yet the hopeless RWD stuff can't even move...even with a slippery diff under the back of them, RWD cars/utes are bloody hopeless. a wet bit of grass leaves them stuck.

    For a while I had my sister inlaws 4x4 tray ute they lent us while we were shifting. Even though it had very chunky AT tires on it .... I had to get out and put it into 4wd just to drive onto the grass in the front yard, otherwise it was instantly bogged (bloody frustrating given all locking hubs were manual). The CX drove on and off the same grass like it was a sealed surface.
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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    Your being way to kind speaking in English. try

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  10. #10
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    To start the beast when you came to pick it up I had to put about 5 ltr of fresh fuel in the tank. The fuel is getting quite old by now. Your friend Fab. also discovered one of the many small hoses around plenum had disconnected its self after a big back fire. The injectors could also be gummed up due to tooo old fuel. Rob

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    Default Your beached whale

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    Last edited by andrewj; 6th September 2014 at 09:57 PM.

    Driving - '90 XM, '85 CX IE Auto, 406 Coupe, 405 srdt wagon, '78 dyane, Resting (or Rusting): '73 Birotor '82 CX Presitige, '81 CX Break IE, GS X2, GS1015 Wagon, GS 1300 5sp Wagon, '76 GS 1220 Wagon, '75 GS Wagon, '58 2CV, '58 Vauxhall Velox

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    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    why not take the known good fuel relay out of the gti and into the the sleeping cx... when the car is up and running and on the trailer... just swap the relays again...

    cheers

    dino

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    Quote Originally Posted by 2mnecxs View Post
    To start the beast when you came to pick it up I had to put about 5 ltr of fresh fuel in the tank. The fuel is getting quite old by now. Your friend Fab. also discovered one of the many small hoses around plenum had disconnected its self after a big back fire. The injectors could also be gummed up due to tooo old fuel. Rob
    Thanks Rob, good suggestion, I'll try some fresh fuel as well.


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    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dino View Post
    why not take the known good fuel relay out of the gti and into the the sleeping cx... when the car is up and running and on the trailer... just swap the relays again...

    cheers

    dino
    I was thinking exactly this idea this morning. Or bridge the wires avoiding the relay.

    will be giving it another go tomorrow.


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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    An easy way to test is pull the feed to starter solenoid from the relay so you can trigger the the fuel pump without the motor cranking over. Then remove a convenient fuel line, on yours it will be the return line from the fuel line (you don't have a cold start injector) so you can see if any fuel is being pumped through. You should get 1 litre every 30secs if all is OK. A quick sniff should tell if it is OK. Alternatively if you have someone else with you, gripping the fuel line with your fingers and when you friend clicks the key over to start you should feel the pressure in the line. I have never had an issue with the big relay in either of my injected CXs and that is now 20 years of CX driving. I would take a hammer to wake the fuel pump up as a first line of attack.
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    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    An easy way to test is pull the feed to starter solenoid from the relay so you can trigger the the fuel pump without the motor cranking over. Then remove a convenient fuel line, on yours it will be the return line from the fuel line (you don't have a cold start injector) so you can see if any fuel is being pumped through. You should get 1 litre every 30secs if all is OK. A quick sniff should tell if it is OK. Alternatively if you have someone else with you, gripping the fuel line with your fingers and when you friend clicks the key over to start you should feel the pressure in the line. I have never had an issue with the big relay in either of my injected CXs and that is now 20 years of CX driving. I would take a hammer to wake the fuel pump up as a first line of attack.
    Not easy to get to the fuel pump whilst it's sitting on its guts.


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  17. #17
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    Stupid question, but they're sometimes the best...

    Is there any fuel or viable fuel in it?
    Craig K
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    To get at the fuel pump, dig a small trench???
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    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    No luck today.

    i jacked the back off the ground enough to get arm and hammer under to give the pump a few good knocks. Removed the relay opened it and can see a broken wire. The relay seems dead. Plenty of fuel in tank. Plenty of electricity in battery. Tried to bridge out the relay but still couldn't hear any noise from the fuel pump. Actually can't see the same relay on the turbo and also I didn't want to burn that out and be stranded with two dead CX's, as much as the location is very pleasant.


    on the way there the turbo's indicators stopped working. I had thought they were always slow but just thought that was probably normal for a CX. Everything else seems to be working and the fuse is fine. Where should I look next?


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  20. #20
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    A few French cars have had slower indicators than the standard Australian expectation. Our CX has a standard indicator relay can underneath the binnacle cover on the left hand side. Remove the screws and lift the curved top panel off and you can't miss it. I simply plugged a new one in, standard from Repco, and it has worked perfectly ever since.

    Good luck with both.
    JohnW

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    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    thanks John removed the flasher can and something is broken inside I can here bits rattling.


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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    No luck today.

    i jacked the back off the ground enough to get arm and hammer under to give the pump a few good knocks. Removed the relay opened it and can see a broken wire. The relay seems dead. Plenty of fuel in tank. Plenty of electricity in battery. Tried to bridge out the relay but still couldn't hear any noise from the fuel pump. Actually can't see the same relay on the turbo and also I didn't want to burn that out and be stranded with two dead CX's, as much as the location is very pleasant.


    on the way there the turbo's indicators stopped working. I had thought they were always slow but just thought that was probably normal for a CX. Everything else seems to be working and the fuse is fine. Where should I look next?
    How about this one:... disconnect fuel line from turbo... use a joiner and a couple meters of fuel line and then connect to fuel rail of dead cx... crank the turbo... crank the cx...

    numero duo... spare battery... + - straight to pump... did you check for power at relay?

    3... led test light is showing injectors firing?

    you ll get there...




    dino

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    that sounds good but then you need to move it?! I guess if you get some life into it you can then jack it on either side and get some broom handle lengths into the suspension cylinders then tow it out, what about a can of fuel hanging off an open bonnet straight into the ignition, maybe with a hand pump on the hose. Bloody hell what a conundrumum.

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts dino's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    that sounds good but then you need to move it?! I guess if you get some life into it you can then jack it on either side and get some broom handle lengths into the suspension cylinders then tow it out, what about a can of fuel hanging off an open bonnet straight into the ignition, maybe with a hand pump on the hose. Bloody hell what a conundrumum.
    Problem is its "injected"...

    It pumps fuel only while engine is turning over (fuel relay is designed to cut fuel flow in a crash situation)...
    Only reason I would get the car going even temporarily is so it can be raised... and once everything is lubricated and warmed up then it should be easier to start on its own pump once the relay issue is solved...


    Is there any signs of the pump working pre ignition (at accessory)once bridged...like for a few seconds as it pressurizes system??? (need to listen to pump as somebody turns key - it cuts out a few secs later) otherwise Remember it ll only run while cranking (if injection system as described by Fab) and normal running...




    dino

  25. #25
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    What happened when you squeezed the contacts inside big blue together.... Did the pump run (you will need the ignition on obviously when you try this ).

    Do you have 12volts at the coils, do you have ~80ohms across both flywheel sensors ............................................... Do you have petrol in the tank (no, actually I'm very serious with that suggestion ... been there, done that ).

    seeya
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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