DS Ignition and steering lock switch!
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 28
Like Tree1Likes

Thread: DS Ignition and steering lock switch!

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,166

    Default DS Ignition and steering lock switch!

    I have a friend who is currently experiencing problems with the ignition switch on his 73 model D Super. Yesterday we tried to remove the switch but were stymied by the cone shaped break off bolts. Does anyone have any suggestions on methods suitable for removing these. Remembering that the closest to the driver one can be accessed easily but the other is in a double panel recess that makes access very difficult!
    Cheers Gerry
    I remember that I had one of these things out many years ago but I am unable to recall how I did it!

    Advertisement
    Cheers Gerry

  2. #2
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    Try this thread, Gerry:

    DS 23 Sterring Column Lock - Removal

    If you go the Vise-Grip method, be prepared to sacrifice that set to the Tool Gods.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,166

    Default

    Thanks Bill. I think I will try Shanes idea of knocking a socket onto the cone on the rear one but I can get to the front one using a small cold chisel!
    Cheers Gerry

  4. #4
    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Dandenong Vic
    Posts
    1,273

    Default

    Gerry it may help to 'roughen' up the surface of the cone first then knocking the socket on. Might give the socket something to bite in/onto.
    Had similar safety/lock nuts on train seats, great idea for security but made it a costly exercise in man power to remove/replace seats. Thankfully the nuts where on u-bolts and deft use of bolt cutters released the seat, that and dirty big vise grips!
    Brendan.

  5. #5
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Thanks Bill. I think I will try Shanes idea of knocking a socket onto the cone on the rear one but I can get to the front one using a small cold chisel!
    Sure 'nuff, Gerry. I have had some limited success with that method. I have what I call a "suicide kit" with tools for just such a deed. If you bust it, who cares, just get another. Addo's idea of the coarse polishing compound on said socket sounds like something to try.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  6. #6
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by bluey504 View Post
    Gerry it may help to 'roughen' up the surface of the cone first then knocking the socket on. Might give the socket something to bite in/onto.
    Had similar safety/lock nuts on train seats, great idea for security but made it a costly exercise in man power to remove/replace seats. Thankfully the nuts where on u-bolts and deft use of bolt cutters released the seat, that and dirty big vise grips!
    Brendan.
    A Dremel with a small ball cutting bit might work. Problem is the area you're working in is very small- not much bigger than the socket required to set the nuts in the first place.

    Edit- I just had a crazy idea: Get a couple of cheap sockets and some of that putty-style fix-all epoxy. Not the 5 minute stuff, that would be too brittle. The stuff you knead together with your fingers. Pack a small amount into the lands of the socket, then attach to the cone, and let set overnight. You will need to support the sockets somehow, and try not to get any on the threads- maybe a little teflon tape if you can get it on there.
    Last edited by Hotrodelectric; 28th August 2014 at 11:37 AM. Reason: crazy idea
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,744

    Default

    I reckon you could get a mig torch and a small sacrificial socket onto it ....
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,166

    Default

    Success!! Shanes socket trick worked well. A 7/16 12 point socket on a 3/8 extension was bashed on until the points dug into the cone. This gave just enough bite to turn the cone.
    On dismantling the contact cylinder from the main switch body I found that the drive pin from the switch shaft had broken off on both sides. I figure that a 1mm drill shank could be adapted to replace this pin! Any other suggestions or advice would be welcome!
    Cheers Gerry

  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,744

    Default

    Who'd have thought I'd try something that involves bashing what's annoying me with a hammer Did you find it wasn't tight too I dont' think they must have tightened those cone headed bolts down in the factory. They just "touched" them down, but didn't torque them up.

    I'd remove the steering lock mechanism if possible and repair/replace the lock. I don't like the idea of steering locks when there old. Plus it allows you to hotwire the car if you ever end up stranded somewhere.

    I reckon the igntion lock is on it's way out in my CX too It's often refusing to turn with the key unless I try several times. No doubt it'll completelly die the day I'm 100+kms from home.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  10. #10
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    I've pulled a few of those locks apart, Shane. They're a bugger to pull apart, they're a bugger to fix, and they're a right bastard to reassemble. Unless you really need the old one, I would go the buy new route. You'll wind up spending less money labor-wise.

    Gerry, if you need to hotwire your car during all this, connecting the blue and red sleeved wires will give you the coil. Interconnecting the "loose" brown and white sleeved wires gives you the starter (unless your car is BVH- with that, you need do nothing).
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Who'd have thought I'd try something that involves bashing what's annoying me with a hammer Did you find it wasn't tight too I dont' think they must have tightened those cone headed bolts down in the factory. They just "touched" them down, but didn't torque them up.

    I'd remove the steering lock mechanism if possible and repair/replace the lock. I don't like the idea of steering locks when there old. Plus it allows you to hotwire the car if you ever end up stranded somewhere.

    I reckon the igntion lock is on it's way out in my CX too It's often refusing to turn with the key unless I try several times. No doubt it'll completelly die the day I'm 100+kms from home.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Those cones have a hexagonal nut on them when fitted in the factory. The hexagon breaks off at a predetermined torque making it difficult to remove as was intended to foil would be thieves. I don't think a thief would even bother as there is just so much dash paraphernalia to remove just to get at it in the first place! Another case of overkill from Citroen!
    Cheers Gerry

  12. #12
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Icon12

    Bill, you're telling Shane to be proactive?

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    I've pulled a few of those locks apart, Shane. They're a bugger to pull apart, they're a bugger to fix, and they're a right bastard to reassemble. Unless you really need the old one, I would go the buy new route. You'll wind up spending less money labor-wise.

    Gerry, if you need to hotwire your car during all this, connecting the blue and red sleeved wires will give you the coil. Interconnecting the "loose" brown and white sleeved wires gives you the starter (unless your car is BVH- with that, you need do nothing).
    Hi Bill the switch is back together the pin was made from a 1.5mm drill shack and it works a treat. Now to reinstall it in the car. Thanks everyone for the help!!
    Cheers Gerry

  14. #14
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Bill, you're telling Shane to be proactive?
    Well... Not really sure I could tell Shane anything.....

    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Hi Bill the switch is back together the pin was made from a 1.5mm drill shack and it works a treat. Now to reinstall it in the car. Thanks everyone for the help!!
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Vincenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    164

    Default

    I have been having the same issue which has been solved by a donor ign lock and it seems to go well. Installed back into the car and everything runs as it should...except... where does the clip end of the fibre optic cable attach? It has me stumped. I didn't see where it was when my main man helped and I now call on the wisdom of the resident gods...

    DS Ignition and steering lock switch!-fibreopticmystery.jpg
    DS23 Pallas BVM Vert Argente - in ground up restoration, soon to be BVH.
    DSpecial 4speed Beige Vanneau, previous ; XM 2.0, maroon, my first.
    And a variety of the usual crapboxes before seeing the light. Except my Mini Cooper with the 3.4 cam and twin webers - that wasn't a POS.

    Bikes -
    Ducati GTS860, CB350, XT550, Z500, T250, XR200, ag90.

  16. #16
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    8,257

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincenzo View Post
    I have been having the same issue which has been solved by a donor ign lock and it seems to go well. Installed back into the car and everything runs as it should...except... where does the clip end of the fibre optic cable attach? It has me stumped. I didn't see where it was when my main man helped and I now call on the wisdom of the resident gods...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fibreopticmystery.jpg 
Views:	205 
Size:	52.3 KB 
ID:	60101
    The round sprung clip fixes over the ignition switch with the optic sitting into the recess, the other end clips into the back of your instrument cluster - you'll see it's fixture low on the side closest to the ignition switch.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  17. #17
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincenzo View Post
    I have been having the same issue which has been solved by a donor ign lock and it seems to go well. Installed back into the car and everything runs as it should...except... where does the clip end of the fibre optic cable attach? It has me stumped. I didn't see where it was when my main man helped and I now call on the wisdom of the resident gods...

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	fibreopticmystery.jpg 
Views:	205 
Size:	52.3 KB 
ID:	60101
    OK- resident god answering...

    On your ignition switch right at the screw collar, there is a hole. The clip goes right over that. It's sorta grooved around the lock, so it's easy to find. In case you don't know, the straight end goes into a latched clip molded into the instrument cluster.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  18. #18
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,744

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Well... Not really sure I could tell Shane anything.....



    I hear that a lot
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! Vincenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    164

    Default

    Thanks for that info - much appreciated. I knew about the cluster end and just couldn't see anywhere for the clip to go. I tried the barrel but not in the correct place. She's been put to bed now and is in her protective bubble so I'll have another go on the weekend. What does it actually do? I just assumed that it was somehow relevant to the tacho. :edit: just thinking about it - does it provide light to the ignition switch key entry?

    DS Ignition and steering lock switch!-inthebubble.jpg
    Last edited by Vincenzo; 28th August 2014 at 03:33 PM.
    DS23 Pallas BVM Vert Argente - in ground up restoration, soon to be BVH.
    DSpecial 4speed Beige Vanneau, previous ; XM 2.0, maroon, my first.
    And a variety of the usual crapboxes before seeing the light. Except my Mini Cooper with the 3.4 cam and twin webers - that wasn't a POS.

    Bikes -
    Ducati GTS860, CB350, XT550, Z500, T250, XR200, ag90.

  20. #20
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    8,257

    Icon3

    Quote Originally Posted by Vincenzo View Post
    Thanks for that info - much appreciated. I knew about the cluster end and just couldn't see anywhere for the clip to go. I tried the barrel but not in the correct place. She's been put to bed now and is in her protective bubble so I'll have another go on the weekend. What does it actually do? I just assumed that it was somehow relevant to the tacho.

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	InTheBubble.jpg 
Views:	188 
Size:	69.8 KB 
ID:	60102
    Love the bubble

    The cable is an optic fibre, it gets illuminated via the dash lights and in turn illuminates the ignition key . . .

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  21. #21
    Member ss2115's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    81

    Default

    Sorry I saw this post too late to assist.
    For future reference, punch the top of the cone and drill progressively larger to whatever is the largest easy-out you have available and then use that. Don't go so thin that the easy-out tears the metal - ie: leave some meat for the easy-out to grip in to.
    DS23 Citroen Safari - 1974 (restoration and modifications. becoming a retirement project).
    BMW 530i M-sport Touring - 2003 (current drive car).
    Suzuki SX4 - 2009 (great car for the daughter).
    Mitsubishi ASX - 2018 (for the wife).
    Toyota Rav 4 - 1996 (Never say die. Service and tow vehicle. just keeps on going).

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Vincenzo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2014
    Location
    Auckland, NZ
    Posts
    164

    Default

    heh yes I figured that bit out after I was pointed in the correct direction. Too late for someone at work - I'd already told them that le DS was so advanced that fibre-optics were used in 1973!! I shan't correct them 'cos it is true (even if not quite the way I wanted..) So in conclusion it isn't a fatal flaw to not have it installed..

    The bubble has worked out to be the best $300 in car care that I have spent - a 7w 12v fan inflates it and keeps the pressure up. Humidity is balanced so no condensation and it is surprisingly robust in wind. The fan whine is audible at 3am but otherwise all good.
    DS23 Pallas BVM Vert Argente - in ground up restoration, soon to be BVH.
    DSpecial 4speed Beige Vanneau, previous ; XM 2.0, maroon, my first.
    And a variety of the usual crapboxes before seeing the light. Except my Mini Cooper with the 3.4 cam and twin webers - that wasn't a POS.

    Bikes -
    Ducati GTS860, CB350, XT550, Z500, T250, XR200, ag90.

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,166

    Default

    To add to the worries of the ignition switch. It is reassembled and tested for continuity and that includes the fly leads when turned fully around against the spring tension. We have ignition and auxiliaries. But there seems to be a lack of power feed for the solenoid relay. There are two independent wires that are not bound into the group for the white plastic plug. These are a white wire with a black terminal sleeve and a brown wire with a white terminal sleeve. On the loom there are two free leads one black with a white sleeve and one green with a brown sleeve. The black wire supplies current to the starter relay once the switch is turned fully I tested this by piking up current from the red wire on the white plastic plug using a jumper wire. The green wire is definitely an earth and has tested as such with a continuity check.
    The question then is ---- where does the supply of current come from the loom. We have looked everywhere we can see and can find no live lead.
    The anomaly is a spare yellow wire that is not installed. Yes we have a part left over.
    It was there when my friend removed the instrument cluster but I did not get to see where it attached.
    It has two bayonet connectors, one at the end and another about 3 inches from the end of the wire ( it has two wires emerging from it) and one with a socket connector for a bayonet from another wire. Perhaps the ignition switch? It is quite a heavy wire and obviously designed to carry a fair amount of current.
    My theory is that this wire plugs into the loom some where and supplies the starting circuit. What is the extra bayonet connector for?
    How does it plug into the loom?
    Last edited by gerrypro; 28th August 2014 at 09:18 PM.
    Cheers Gerry

  24. #24
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    To add to the worries of the ignition switch. It is reassembled and tested for continuity and that includes the fly leads when turned fully around against the spring tension. We have ignition and auxiliaries. But there seems to be a lack of power feed for the solenoid relay. There are two independent wires that are not bound into the group for the white plastic plug. These are a white wire with a black terminal sleeve and a brown wire with a white terminal sleeve. On the loom there are two free leads one black with a white sleeve and one green with a brown sleeve. The black wire supplies current to the starter relay once the switch is turned fully I tested this by piking up current from the red wire on the white plastic plug using a jumper wire. The green wire is definitely an earth and has tested as such with a continuity check.
    The question then is ---- where does the supply of current come from the loom. We have looked everywhere we can see and can find no live lead.
    The anomaly is a spare yellow wire that is not installed. Yes we have a part left over.
    It was there when my friend removed the instrument cluster but I did not get to see where it attached.
    It has two bayonet connectors, one at the end and another about 3 inches from the end of the wire ( it has two wires emerging from it) and one with a socket connector for a bayonet from another wire. Perhaps the ignition switch? It is quite a heavy wire and obviously designed to carry a fair amount of current.
    My theory is that this wire plugs into the loom some where and supplies the starting circuit. What is the extra bayonet connector for?
    How does it plug into the loom?
    Hi Gerry:
    Coupla questions. Does your car have a battery-mount solenoid? Some cars, I forget what years, used both the battery solenoid and the starter mount solenoid. The way you describe the ignition switch, I'm guessing your car is a BVM. Without the battery solenoid, you need to feed power directly to the starter mounted solenoid.

    I'll have to look it up, but IIRC that yellow wire is a jumper lead coming from the light switch. That lead tells me your car is '70->. Black male, black female, and a white female, correct (always pay attention to the color sleeve ends- that's where the key is)?
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  25. #25
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Camperdown 3260 Australia
    Posts
    3,166

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    Hi Gerry:
    Coupla questions. Does your car have a battery-mount solenoid? Some cars, I forget what years, used both the battery solenoid and the starter mount solenoid. The way you describe the ignition switch, I'm guessing your car is a BVM. Without the battery solenoid, you need to feed power directly to the starter mounted solenoid.

    I'll have to look it up, but IIRC that yellow wire is a jumper lead coming from the light switch. That lead tells me your car is '70->. Black male, black female, and a white female, correct (always pay attention to the color sleeve ends- that's where the key is)?
    Hi Bill, OK, for one the car is RHD. Ian the owner tells me it is a 74 model D Super. Someone has added an extra relay and mounted it at the +ve terminal of the battery it is just strapped to the cable with a cable tie . The black wire feeds directly to the relay. When I picked up power from the red lead at the white junction connector of the switch I was able to get the starter solenoid to activate ( integral with the starter motor-- Ducellier I think).
    The yellow lead has three black sleeves. I could not see any place to plug it in from the lighting switch.
    Am I right in thinking that the green fly lead is just an auxiliary earth?
    In the post 71 installation diagram for bvm vehicles there is a lead shown at that position that connects to nothing. It does not indicate the wire/'feuile' colour. I have just tried to upload the relevant pages but even that process is thwarting my efforts!
    It is all getting a little bit confusing.
    Cheers Gerry

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •