Water added to LHM...
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    Tadpole dherrick's Avatar
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    Default Water added to LHM...

    Hi All,

    In a rather absent minded moment the other night I topped up the hydraulic fluid in my DS21 from the water bottle instead of the LHM bottle, before realizing what I was doing and stopping. At most I added 3 tablespoons of water.

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    Now, how seriously have I erred? Shall I change the LHM, or will this small an amount of water not affect the system?

    Regards

    David

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Hell yes, flush the whole lot and chuck in some HydraurinÁage if you can get it. Bleed everywhere, flush and bleed...

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    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    You could let it sit for awhile and just drain the resevoir with the drain hose? The water would float on top wouldn't it folks?
    Just a thought....

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    10 weight oil is lighter than water.

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    Fellow Frogger! Mungous's Avatar
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    You do not want to leave the water anywhere. Addo is correct. Drain and flush. Drain and flush. Repeat.

    LHM is much cheaper than the alternative...

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    the water will just float on the top... just drain the reservoir and refill.... Obviously don't start it !
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    Tadpole dherrick's Avatar
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    Thanks for the advice, I shall drain and flush, drain and flush.

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    Hello, and make sure your bonnet is properly shut before you drive off....

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    Quote Originally Posted by dherrick View Post
    Thanks for the advice, I shall drain and flush, drain and flush.
    Actually there is an easier way - The bit of water you added will sink to the bottom of the reservoir (keep in mind that even crude oil floats on water). Go to a local chemical supply house and procure a couple of 100 grams or so of an indicating desiccant. Put a a tablespoon or so of the desiccant into a cloth bag, tie tightly and leave a fairly long length of string on the end. Just slip it into the fill opening of the reservoir and let it sink to the bottom. Leave there for a bit and remove. Repeat this until it stops changing color. It helps if you loosen the reservoir so you can swirl the contents a bit when the desiccant is on the bottom.

    Steve

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    Tadpole dherrick's Avatar
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    The indicating desiccant option sounds good.

    Considering I've run the engine/pump for about a minute later that evening (had to move the car under cover), would this have sucked the water into the system, or should the small amount of water have stayed at the base of the reservoir?

    David

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    the water will just float on the top...
    What!!! Since when does water float on oil???? If we didn't know you better Shane I would assume you were being ironic

    Cheers

    Alec

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post
    What!!! Since when does water float on oil???? If we didn't know you better Shane I would assume you were being ironic

    Cheers

    Alec
    No, no, no ... I wasn't being ironic.... I know what I meant I was thinking LHM not water when I typed that. Given the car has been started and ran, it'll need to be flushed. LHM however does float ontop of brake fluid. Do you want to know how I know that one

    If it was a CX I'd say he's still safe either way (the water would have dropped under the plastic disc in the base of the reseviour). If you think of how the DS tank works it's possible the DS pickup may have sucked it up though.

    The water is going to separate out to the lowest point in the hydraulics right So the front height corrector if it's in the system

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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    Fellow Frogger! Mungous's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dherrick View Post
    Considering I've run the engine/pump for about a minute later that evening (had to move the car under cover), would this have sucked the water into the system, or should the small amount of water have stayed at the base of the reservoir?
    OK - my revised advice would be to stop posting on this forum and get flushing!! It is quite amazing how quickly the precisely machined steel components can become corroded...

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    Yeah I meant the water would float on the water, so much for year 12 chemistry! What an idiot I am. Just sell the car, easiest option ; )

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    Tadpole dherrick's Avatar
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    Advice heeded. Reservoir now empty awaiting fresh LHM tomorrow to flush through. Some water did come out suspended in the LHM, will still flush the system through to remove all trace. Not going to take the easy option and sell the car ;-)

    Can also advise that using pyrex jugs from the kitchen to collect LHM is not popular with ones spouse...

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    1000+ Posts bluey504's Avatar
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    Can also advise that using pyrex jugs from the kitchen to collect LHM is not popular with ones spouse...[/QUOTE]

    Nor is boiling carbies and other grot covered items in the kitchen using a dish washer powder soultion, did use manky old saucepans.
    Brendan.
    ps Now do this outside on an old BBQ, can still teach Old Idiots new lessons.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dherrick View Post
    Advice heeded. Reservoir now empty awaiting fresh LHM tomorrow to flush through. Some water did come out suspended in the LHM, will still flush the system through to remove all trace. Not going to take the easy option and sell the car ;-)

    Can also advise that using pyrex jugs from the kitchen to collect LHM is not popular with ones spouse...
    As fluid is pulled off the bottom of the tank then some water most likely got into the system. And don't worry about the metal parts getting rusty as the amount of water was minimal and it takes oxygen to complete the reaction and that is in scarce quantity in the system unless you are low in fluid and it gets aerated by the pump.

    I would still suggest getting the desiccant and suspending a muslin bag of it in the tank. Run the car turning the steering lock to lock a few times as well as through bleeding of the front and rear brakes (contaminated fluid most likely did not get into the rear brake circuits but still better safe than sorry) as well as moving the car from the highest to lowest height settings a few times. If the desiccant comes out unchanged then you will know you got all of the water out.

    With the fluid you drained place a bag or bags of desiccant in the containers to absorb what ever water is in them. After it is dried you can put that LHM in some clean metal containers and use it later. FWIW the factory had a modification for LHS cars in wet climates that basically was a container of desiccant that fit over the cap/air hole on the reservoir that dried out the air that would be sucked in when the car was started each time.

    Steve

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dherrick View Post
    Advice heeded. Reservoir now empty awaiting fresh LHM tomorrow to flush through. Some water did come out suspended in the LHM, will still flush the system through to remove all trace. Not going to take the easy option and sell the car ;-)

    Can also advise that using pyrex jugs from the kitchen to collect LHM is not popular with ones spouse...
    Good God, man! You're not supposed to be telling her! Sheesh......
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    Tadpole dherrick's Avatar
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    She had an idea something was up when I wandered in the show her the water sitting below the LHM in the jug... To her credit she put the girls to bed by herself that night so I could start working on the car.

    Anyway, the system has now been drained, bleed/flushed, and there is now six litres of fresh LHM in it. Some water and air bubbles came out of the front left and rear right. The front left was a mission to bleed, the nipple wouldn't open with the ring spanner and my arm threaded through, so I ended up removing the radiator tunnel to let me get a socket onto it.

    For further piece of mind I'll also use some indicating desiccant to ensure all possible water is gone.

    Thanks to all for the advice. Adding water is not a mistake I'll be making again!

    David

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    Fellow Frogger! Mungous's Avatar
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    I have twice sorted out BXs for unlucky owners who had gas station attendants fill their "radiator header tanks" with water. All new hydraulic components, blast out all LHM lines with compressed air, and issue stout warnings about letting poorly trained monkeys anywhere near an LHM reservoir...

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    Fellow Frogger! FedGrapes's Avatar
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    I had a nightmare about doing this last night. I credit this thread with the imagination material.

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    1000+ Posts driven's Avatar
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    Desiccant usage
    Water absorption is inevitably slower, though, whenever the desiccant is coated with or submerged in oil.

    Don't forget that some desiccants need to have the water baked out of them before use.

    A roll of toilet paper used as a filter will remove gross water from oil, especially if it's baked at 250F in an oven first.

    (Cellulose has better affinity for water than for oil)

  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungous View Post
    I have twice sorted out BXs for unlucky owners who had gas station attendants fill their "radiator header tanks" with water. All new hydraulic components, blast out all LHM lines with compressed air, and issue stout warnings about letting poorly trained monkeys anywhere near an LHM reservoir...
    Why did anything need replacing. Water shouldn't hurt anything.... give her a good flush and she's away again .... Or was if left in there for months before someone realised

    Water isn't a big deal IMO. Brake fluid or something that damages the seals hydraulic system IS !!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    Fellow Frogger! Mungous's Avatar
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    One guy *said* the water had been in there for only a week, and there was obvious corrosion on things like height correctors and the doseur valve.

    The other car had been contaminated for much longer, as almost all hydraulic bits had either seized solid or sprung leaks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungous View Post
    One guy *said* the water had been in there for only a week, and there was obvious corrosion on things like height correctors and the doseur valve.

    The other car had been contaminated for much longer, as almost all hydraulic bits had either seized solid or sprung leaks.
    Yes, water will tend to collect in corners and crevices and creep under washers and shims etc.. Bare steel will corrode as the oil is displaced and the water will contain some oxygen. It may not corrode rapidly, but it will happen, leaving pitting damage to otherwise good parts. The debris that collects in places like the back of the priority valve can also lead to pitting in LHM parts, so nobody should assume it's 100% immune to problems. For the car in question, the smartest option would be to remove as much of the water as possible, flush the system by running your LHM through repeatedly (decant it to remove the water) until you are happy there are no droplets of water coming out, then drive it as much as possible to move residual water into the vapour phase. The desiccant bag (an excellent idea if it is not dusty, which it often is) might even best be hung in the headspace of the reservoir rather than immersing it. Just don't flush it and then not use it.

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