CX Starter troubles ...
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default CX Starter troubles ...

    Hi All (and greetings from Finland!).

    I have a quick question about the starter on my 1981 CX Pallas (Douvrin engine).

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    The original unit started to get a bit dodgy (solenoid) so needed encouragement with the wheel brace for a few whacks before deciding to turn over.

    I replaced it with a much smaller brand new Lucas LRS460 unit that was given to me by the guy I bought the car from in Italy amongst a lot of other bits in a box.

    This new unit worked like a charm for a few weeks but has suddenly decided not to play ball. It groans a little a tries to turn over the motor but seems to have lost all torque. Sometimes I get nothing at all when I hit the key. I have checked and there is plenty of voltage at the connect terminal and the battery is fine.

    Does anyone know what it might be? I never checked the units compatibility with this CX motor before installing but just dropped it on as everything seemed pretty well in place (nuts discarded from threaded bolts as the new unit has threaded holes drilled already).

    Any help greatly appreciated before I jump under to whip it off again and get my hands dirty.

    Cheers,
    JonoCX

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Hi Jono,

    CX with Douvrin engines are very rare in Australia. CXes in Australia were all imported with the side cam 2200, 2400 and 2500 engines. Members of the Renault forum might be more help as I think this engine was used in the R20.

    You might be able to re-brush the original starter motor quite easily.

    Cheers,

    Ken W

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Andy N's Avatar
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    Hi Jono,

    Funny thing about this is I know another Finn who is having problems with his starter motor. Maybe he can let us know how he is going??

  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    Thanks for the replies on this Andy & Ken.

    On further investigation it seems that it might not be the starter itself but something earlier on the line.

    I got out the multimeter today and checked about a bit.

    With ignition on there is a constant 12V on the starter 'trigger' wire... ie. the one going to the small terminal on the solenoid. My understanding is that this should only get the 12V when the key is in the spring loaded 'turnover' position?

    So, could it be a dodgy ignition relay that is stuck? If so (keeping in mind its a Series 1 1981... did they use relays on ignition then?) where would I find this relay? I have traced the trigger wire back until it disappears in to the cable trunk near the LHM reservoir but cant follow it further without major destruction.

    Any thoughts as to where to look for the relay would be a great help.

    Thanks to all.
    JonoCX

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! kimmo's Avatar
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    I'm fine Andy, thanks I swapped the faulty starter over yesterday. Unfortunately the alternator was in flames (literally) after five minutes. I'll swap that over next and maybe I will have a nice Sunday drive on the coming weekend.
    C5 Touring 2008, CX 2400ie Prestige '81 (with dead gerbox), CX 2400 Pallas C-Matic '80, CX2400 Super Familiale C-Matic '79 (to be scrapped very soon) , CX2400i Familiale 5-spd (to be scrapped), GS 1220 Wagon '78 (next project), ID19 '64
    CX Register

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! marc61's Avatar
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    Hi

    Sounds like the ignition switch is packing up. Try unplugging the trigger wire to the solenoid, check gear is in neutral, then switch on the ignition and touch the wire going to the solenoid onto the positive battery terminal. If engine turns over ok and starts up ok, it's almost certainly the ignition switch.

    I tend to wire in a start button and use that to send current to the solenoid, to at least get mobile. The ignition switches eventually get fed up handling the big currents, so theres a good chance it'll keep working ok if you free it up from doing the start up role in my experience. Failing that you could try dismantling the ignition switch and cleaning up, but it needs quite a lot of care and patience.

    Cheers

    Marc
    Cheers, Marc.

    1987 CX GTi T2 Maikonics
    1972 SM 2.7 carb
    1972 DS21 EFI

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    Hey Marc and thanks for the response!

    I've finally checked things through and yes, it seems like the ignition switch is to blame. I pulled the solenoid of and opened it up but its still not responding to the trigger wire current... perhaps as it sat with that current going into it constantly for some time and got damaged.
    I'm ordering a new solenoid (the starter unit is brand new) and had a rather random thought - is there any reason why I couldn't use the 12v feed from the horn to fire the starter? (even as a temp solution). This would mean that the horn button becomes my starter for a while.
    Crazy but possible?

    Cheers for the help,
    JonoCX

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    The trigger wire is supplied with current by a wire that passes very close to the +ve battery terminal. It has a red connector just along side the battery. Pull this apart and touch the wire to the battery. If the engine turns over the problem could be the ignition switch if it does not turn over then the problem is in the solenoid of the starter motor.
    Cheers Gerry

  9. #9
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I'm remember in the past seeing them on ebay .... they appear to be the sames as the poogoes and renaults.... eg: 505/fuego/etc...

    CITROEN CX PEUGEOT 505 RENAULT TRAFFIC 80 - 01 Starter Motor LRS533 STM 666 | eBay

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  10. #10
    Tadpole
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    Big help. Thanks fellas.

    New solenoid on the way from the UK (not avail here in Finland) and a temp re-wiring solution in the planning stages.

    Cheers and drive safe,
    JonoCX

  11. #11
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    I am fairly sure that at one stage I was able to dismantle the solenoid and dress the faces of the contacts. The problem is though that I can't remember which model Citroen I did this on. Light 15, DS or CX. That aside I would investigate if your solenoid can be repaired or not!
    Cheers Gerry

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