C5 Wagons. Logical next step from Xantia wagon?
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Thread: C5 Wagons. Logical next step from Xantia wagon?

  1. #1
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Default C5 Wagons. Logical next step from Xantia wagon?

    Hi all. Been away for a while but it's now time to upgrade my Frogging.

    I'm seriously contemplating upgrading from the Xantia wagon to a C5 wagon.

    Given that Zaphod the Xantia is coming up for 280,000 Km it may well be time to think about putting him out to pasture and investing in something a bit newer. Not that he's been particularly unreliable. Apart from a couple of small issues with electricals, mostly cured by replacing the fuse box with one that I resoldered, the experience has been pleasant. However he's going to need balljoints, some hydraulic attention to potentially sticky height correctors and possibly leaking brake valve, etc etc. The list just goes on, as you would expect from a car some 18 years old.

    If I could get a newer (say 2001) wagon in a manual, less than 100,000km on the clock, white, with a sunroof. (Asking too much?) I'd be on it like a shot since the Xantia is just the right size in my opinion. However, such a car is eluding me at present. It's annoying that there have been one or two like this come up in the past year or so that would have been ideal, but up until now the opportunity hasn't really been there for me to think about upgrading.

    So given my desire to stay with a hydro Citroen, and a relatively new one, the C5 seems to be the only candidate, as much as I'd like to stick with the green fluid cars. (Still got Moby Dick though)

    My question is this. What model should I seek? A trawl through the Forum looking at posts about C5s in general has led me to the following conclusions.

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    The AL4 is well and truly off my list, but manual cars seem to be a bit like hen's teeth, even though available at times.
    The Aisin-Warner 6 speed seems to be prone to the odd valve body failure, but otherwise (presumably) reliable so far.
    Diesels seem to be a Good Thing, but what about Eolys longevity and filter issues? Is the 2 litre better or worse than the 2.2 Hdi? Is the petrol 2 litre such a bad thing? (I assume it's a 16V version of the XU engine family like Zaphod and the 307/8 etc?)
    Are there issues with other things? I've heard of drive shafts failing preaturely, is this an isolated incident or are they just a weak design?

    As you can see, I've got a lot of thinking and research to do before making a final decision. The ones currently available in my price range (say under $10K) all seem to have around 100 to 160,000 km under their wheels. Should I be worried about cam belt change intervals etc?

    So my question to the Brains Trust is simply, how do we see the C5 wagon as a replacement for the Xantia wagon?

    Over to you guys. I look forward to some interesting reading and ponderation.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Next project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Not a vote from me for the C5. Smoother and quieter, just too many niggles. Plastic headlamps, dodgy PSF, dual zone climate failures, electrified hydraulics. I'd spend $5K on a refresh of the Xantia instead.

    All the things that wear on a Xantia, pretty much wear on a C5 - bushes, links, bumpstops, bearings. No gain there. Tailgate struts - fun indeed, and twice as many to replace or gas up. Strut leakoffs that still break. Spheres that are all but impossible to regas. ABS sensors that sense elements inside the wheel bearing - not so failsafe to repair at home. Hydraulic pump motors that gum up and stop. The AM6 valvebody is almost three times the AL4 valvebody cost. Speedo stepper motors die.

    If you want a newer car simply for the sake of having a newer car, then go for it. Buy an X7 that's been used as a country rep's car. But they are not in my opinion, "better" to a degree that commends replacing a Xantia with one.
    Last edited by addo; 14th August 2014 at 10:30 PM.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    I agree with Addo. It will be cheaper in the long run to refresh the Xantia, or like the navy say, a refit. The Xantia, the last real Citroen is a fantastic machine as I am sure you know. Ours will stay with us for the foreseeable future. Even if the AL4 gives up I probably would repair it now.
    Cars have become more and more complicated as time has passed and therefore more difficult for the home mechanic to maintain. I marvel at how simple the CX appears under the bonnet now. However if you are set on moving 'up', a face lifted 2l turbo diesel with the AW gearbox is the pick.
    Mine

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  4. #4
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    The only C5's with a proper gearbox are the old wheezy 2litre petrols from memory ........ You want the deisel though, I wouldn't touch a modern petrol myself given the economy and pulling power you get from the modern diesels.

    The only way you can get a proper gearbox in a wagon is the poogoe ones that have appalling hard suspension.... rough as bloody guts. but is bascially the same car in everything except the tacky plastic badges.

    something like this ?

    2007 Citroen C5 SX HDi MY06 Sports Automatic

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Gulsons in Canberra told me that post 2006 C5s had the more reliable/better slushbox. I am sticking with the Xantia CT and have no desire for a C5 ( at the moment). My kids reckon they are an old man's car , something they have never said about Xantias. We loved our 1996 SX 16V manual wagon. The best car we ever had for nearly 300k kms.

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    I think Citroen need to remake the BX.....Its time!!

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    I can speak with experiance having owned 3 xantias and then upgraded to a C5 wagon, these 2 cars are not in the same league, c5 is a big bloody barge that lacks feel and falls apart, xantias are just awesome sold and fun, after selling my C5 i have since owned 2 more xantias and ghe current 16v wagon manual has got 378,000 on the clock and is still perfect, just sold another c5 diesel i fixed up, drove it for a few weaks terrible gearbox poor drive feel and bland, sold it last week back to the beloved xantia, best later model car i own and simple to maintain is a d9 pug 406 hdi manual wagon in white with 7 seats, love car great and fuel, if you want one i have one forsale


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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by moulton2speed View Post
    ....My kids reckon they are an old man's car.
    smart kids.

    Jo

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    Fellow Frogger! John P's Avatar
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    The poor old C5 is not too popular hereabouts, is it Pottsy?
    I have no Xantia ownership experience for comparison but we've had a better run with our C5 than addo.
    It's a facelift 2.0 turbo-diesel wagon, bought 15 months ago with 80-odd thousand on it and looking for a 10-year reliable daily driver. We think we've got that, though it's not in the same league as the CX for seat and ride comfort and character.
    The C5's only issues have been rear discs/pads (rear?), a persistent "depollution system faulty" warning which was cured by a four-hour country trip, the progressive ripping away of the plastic front under-tray and tailgate struts which do not regas well and cost $750+.
    Economy is 7.0 l/100km at 110 on the Hume, 8 around town and 11 with a campervan.
    If you can find a low-mileage one it should represent good value. You'll probably have to go to NSW or Qld to find it, though. We were luck and bought in Melbourne but it was an ACT car, serviced by Gulson's.
    2006 C5 2.0 HDI estate - daily driver
    1981 2CV - The Amelie project is complete.
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  10. #10
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Hmm. As John says, not a lot of love for the C5.

    My rationale is that I want to move to a more modern, and potentially more reliable, car as the regular drive.

    The up side is having something quiet smooth etc that I can cruise in and take aged relative with ease.

    The down side is giving up a fair bit of the capability for self servicing of the car. Pretty much anything newer than the Xantia is out of the "home mechanic" league as far as tinkering and servicing is concerned, or so it seems. Not to say it's beyond my capabilities, but my time may well be better utilised in the many projects sitting waiting for me to start on them.

    Sure, I could give the Xantia a lot of love, but that would need to extend to suspension and engine rebuild as well as a re-paint before it'd be anywhere near equivalent to a newer replacement. Not sure that I want to do that much work on it either to be frank. I'm keen to get stuck in to the 2CV projects and refurbishing the Xantia would push them even further back than the overseas trip we recently returned from.

    So consensus seems to be that IF you must have a C5 wagon then the 2litre HDI turbo Aisin-Warner facelifted job seems to be the pick. That's pretty much what I'm looking at that's available in a reasonable price range, so more news as it comes to hand!

    Cheers, and thanks for the feedback, Pottsy
    Armidillo likes this.
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Next project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Even they are ageing; the X7 came out around 2008 so plenty are to be found.

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    Forget the anti-PSA snobbery. If you don't want to make an old car new again (and you can't just subtract the mileage), and you want the Citroen ride, your only sensible choice is a hydraulic X7, which are delightful to drive. The only problem I see is that the wagon is the most sought after model, and will cost more because of it. I agree, 2.0 HDI is the way to go; all X7s have the AM6 auto box. Early ones have the DW10B motor, later ones have the DW10C. Personally I'd rather not have to pay for the tyres on the larger rims on some.
    Jinandfonic likes this.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Have a chat with Dave Cavanagh.... He's just posted a wagon on facebook I'd jump at in a heartbeat if I was after a wagon..... proper manual gearbox, deisel, and probably decent suspension 'cos it's a reanult (not a crashy bumpy thumpy poogoe).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  14. #14
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    Shane, if you think your 407 is crashy bumpy thumpy try a Beemer or Merc for a rock hard German ride. Or just about anything else with springs and shock absorbers. Even the steel sprung X7 low-spec versions are comfortable.
    Boyracer likes this.

  15. #15
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    Shane, if you think your 407 is crashy bumpy thumpy try a Beemer or Merc for a rock hard German ride. Or just about anything else with springs and shock absorbers. Even the steel sprung X7 low-spec versions are comfortable.
    My 30year old 4wd rides better than the poogoes ... when that is the case, you really have to wonder what's going on with the suspension designers at poogoe
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  16. #16
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Pottsy could do worse than consider Dieselman's X7 series wagon, if he still wants a late model C5.

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Pottsy could do worse than consider Dieselman's X7 series wagon, if he still wants a late model C5.
    Well the figurative bullet has been virtually bitten.

    This weekend I hope to be driving my very own C5 wagon.

    I looked at Dieselman's offering but seriously it was too far outside my budget. Another, far less rational, reason is that while I have no doubt the X7 is a great car, I simply don't like the tail light treatment whereas I love the pixie ears on the previous model. (I said it wasn't a rational reason! )

    Anyway, I''ve bought the one that was for sale in Mt Martha. Time will tell if I've made a good decision, but I seriously couldn't fault the car, despite the rather negative RACV report commissioned by a previous potential buyer.

    It's facelifted late 2006 build with the 2 litre diesel and the A-W 6 speed box. Has more bells and whistles than a millionaire with a deaf butler and looks fantastic in bright red.

    I guess we'll all see together whether I've made a bad decision or taken a successful gamble. Either way, let the adventure begin!

    And thanks for the feedback chaps. See the For Sale section for the details on Zaphod, now available to discerning buyers.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Next project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Hope you enjoy it Pottsy! My VSX was a more sporty, involving drive, but the C5 is a very roomy, very comfortable cruiser. I think you got the pick of them all, plus the red looks great, the same as mine!
    06 Citroen C5 Estate 2.2 Hdi Auto
    95 Peugeot 306 S16
    95 Silver Xantia VSX - now deceased

  19. #19
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    Well done you!
    I hope you find it to be a pleasure to drive.
    I think the forum has established that appropriate auto-trans fluid changes are an excellent form of preventative maintenance .
    Talk to me, I know!

    Cheers,

    David

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Hi Dave.

    Yeah, I was chatting to Paul yesterday and just as soon as I've saved up from the 307's service bill I'll get him & Kenny to give it the once over.

    It certainly shifts smoothly so far.

    We'll get together soon and have a Red C5 Festival!

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Next project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  21. #21
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by pottsy View Post
    Hi Dave.

    Yeah, I was chatting to Paul yesterday and just as soon as I've saved up from the 307's service bill I'll get him & Kenny to give it the once over.

    It certainly shifts smoothly so far.

    We'll get together soon and have a Red C5 Festival!

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Well, well. End of an era. Our Xantia is just over 90,000 so has a way to go. I had my first ride in a C5 (diesel wagon, auto) the other week and it was very smooth etc. Its owner likes it but feels "It isn't a keeper!", with which I agree. It's complicated like all moderns. That said, I'd say a "good" one would be a good ten-year car, but you wouldn't want a 20-year old one. I reckon you'll really enjoy it and they have a much higher safety rating than the Xantias if you do have that accident.

    Does the new one have a name yet?

    In parallel, almost, we've upgraded from the 306, almost 20 years old and going perfectly, to a 9-year old Renault Scenic. Excellent car and very easy to get in and out of as you slide sideways rather than curling up and down.

    Enjoy the C5.
    JohnW

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  22. #22
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post

    Does the new one have a name yet?
    Having only arrived home with the car about an hour ago, the answer is no.

    Running around in my head are a couple of possibilities. The one that I DON'T want to use, but time will tell if it is earned, is Basil. (As in Basil Fawlty...faulty...Geddit?)

    There will be a naming ceremony, probably involvng a suitable single malt, but not for a wee while until I choose something suitable.

    Cheers, Pottsy
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Next project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  23. #23
    1000+ Posts pottsy's Avatar
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    In the meantime here's a couple of piccies. Can I persuade anyone to take on Zaphod and give him the love he deserves?

    Cheers, Pottsy.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails C5 Wagons. Logical next step from Xantia wagon?-new-toy.jpg   C5 Wagons. Logical next step from Xantia wagon?-old-new-together.jpg   C5 Wagons. Logical next step from Xantia wagon?-old-new-together-2.jpg  
    Buvito Ergo Sum!

    The Fleet:

    2018 C3 Shine ("Oscar" Mrs P's)
    1974 D Special Manual Sedan ("Moby Dick")
    2006 C5 HDI Wagon Auto ("Mephistopheles")
    1982 2CV6 ("Gaston") Seasoned traveller
    1975 GS Pallas ("GiSelle") Next project
    And for Fun, 1968 Mini Deluxe ("The R & D'luxe" 1078cc, Grin Factor 100!)

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Noice!

    I must say that I'm quite a fan of the colour.

    Basil would be a poor choice of name as it conjours images of "green" not red.
    I believe the colour of the new hydraulic is "rouge lucifer"
    Some clues there and a link to your original thought if it does go "basil faulty"


    David

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    The oil is always black, even after a change, because you can't remove it all from the galleries inside when you drop it. 'Black' is less of a problem than 'sticky' and low, which suggests neglect. You should be using 5W30 synthetic suitable for a particle filter i.e. low ash (SAPS) oil.

    You can probably expect the leakage at the RHR of the engine bay to be a rubber section in the front suspension pipe. Possibly not a cheap repair as it's not that simple to get at and new pipe harnesses are expensive. Also, check the fuel lines as they surface in that corner of the engine bay. If it's been leaking onto the control arm bushes, make sure they are not soggy as that makes the car wander quite badly at speed.

    Spares you might want to track down or at least know where to find them, aside from the usual items, would be a brake switch, the EGR valve and the one-way pulley for the alternator. If you own the car long enough, they are all likely to let you down. If the EGR valve breaks and fails open, then it will not start, but a get you home fix would be to blank it off.

    At 149K, plan for a FAP additive / Eolys refill in the not too distant future. It may be needed anytime after 160K, depending on how the car has been used. The refill can be a rather costly exercise at full-freight rates.

    Make sure it has had the recalls performed including the check valve on the brake vacuum pump.

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