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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! DanielBendigo's Avatar
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    Default New CX owner

    A spur of the moment decision has just fulfilled a childhood dream and I bought a CX this morning. I've sort of been looking for a while and missed out on two because I've been too slow. So I decided to jump at this one.

    It's an 85 CX2500 GTi, with sunroof and leather. South African delivered but been registered in Victoria since the late about 1988.

    It was driven reasonably regularly but started to develop electrical problems. It's had a number of home help electrical repairs and now won't start. So I'm going to find a friendly electrician then spend some time working on the rest to get it on the road.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielBendigo View Post
    A spur of the moment decision has just fulfilled a childhood dream and I bought a CX this morning. I've sort of been looking for a while and missed out on two because I've been too slow. So I decided to jump at this one.

    It's an 85 CX2500 GTi, with sunroof and leather. South African delivered but been registered in Victoria since the late about 1988.

    It was driven reasonably regularly but started to develop electrical problems. It's had a number of home help electrical repairs and now won't start. So I'm going to find a friendly electrician then spend some time working on the rest to get it on the road.
    Before you ask the auto-electricians that are not familiar with the "usual" injected CX's electrical issues, ask here first. Where abouts is the car located at the moment Possibly someone can look at if for you.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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    Congrats! Now the fun begins Does the engine turn over? When working on my C-matic it wouldn't start at first but remembered the leads to starter motor & a/c clutch look similar from my other. I turned on the a/c & it roared into life. An easy swap. Good luck
    Citroen C5 II manual '05; C4 Exculsive '07; Citroen CX2200 Pallas '76; CX2400 C-matic Pallas '78

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinandfonic View Post
    Congrats! Now the fun begins Does the engine turn over? When working on my C-matic it wouldn't start at first but remembered the leads to starter motor & a/c clutch look similar from my other. I turned on the a/c & it roared into life. An easy swap. Good luck
    The injected ones will probably be fuel pump/flywheel sensors etc... if it won't run First thing you do is pull the starter soleniod wiring plug beside the battery and hold the key in the start position .... and see if you can hear the fuel pump running without the engine cranking.

    Also use your multi-meter to see if both flywheel sensors are 70=>90ohms resistance.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    Fellow Frogger! DanielBendigo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Before you ask the auto-electricians that are not familiar with the "usual" injected CX's electrical issues, ask here first. Where abouts is the car located at the moment Possibly someone can look at if for you.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    It's been rewired a bit there's a bunch of extra wires connected directly to the battery. I haven't actually seen it yet, only photos. But I got sick of missing out on them because I was so slow.

    It was only $1000 and perfectly straight and being sold because the elderly owner had passed away.

    Cat is currently at the vendor still in Oakleigh. I'm going down to Melbourne on the weekend to look at it and figure out how to get it home, or whether to leave it with family in Melbourne.


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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielBendigo View Post
    It's been rewired a bit there's a bunch of extra wires connected directly to the battery. I haven't actually seen it yet, only photos. But I got sick of missing out on them because I was so slow.

    It was only $1000 and perfectly straight and being sold because the elderly owner had passed away.

    Cat is currently at the vendor still in Oakleigh. I'm going down to Melbourne on the weekend to look at it and figure out how to get it home, or whether to leave it with family in Melbourne.


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    It's probably had a starter relay fitted. Check none of the wires have been knocked off of it!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    Fellow Frogger! John P's Avatar
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    Congratulations, Daniel and welcome to the CX faction. Sunroof and leather sound good. Please post some pics when you see the car at the weekend. I'd be wary of auto elecs who are not familiar with CXs. There could be lots of unnecessary and expensive tears down that path.
    If you get on the tools yourself, use this forum. The people are very helpful. Unfortunately it could be any of scores of stupid little things that stop the car running. Start with the basics like engine cranking, presence of spark and fuel at the right pressure. Keep in touch because after that the possibilities mushroom.
    One advantage of keeping the car in the metro area until it goes would be accessibility to help from the likes of us. For example I have working crank angle sensors and a 'big blue' relay that just may help if that is the problem.
    If you're not confident of your ability in that area, then Joe at Paris Motors in Richmond or Robert Kalkbrenner at Heka in Dandenong know older Citroens and will get you going properly, but electronic detective work at professional rates soon adds up.
    Good luck and keep us posted on this thread.
    2006 C5 2.0 HDI estate - daily driver
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    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    I was watching that car, and am glad to see it has gone to you. I agree with the initial checks that Shane and John have suggested, as they seem to be the most common fail points.


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    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

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    JBN
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    Congratulations on your purchase of a CX. Don't let the saying "act on impulse, repent at leisure" phase you. That's how I ended up owning two CXs over ten years.

    I had a 1985 CX 25IE, not that different to what you have. It started when it felt like it and stopped running when it felt like it, regardless where you were or what you were doing. Having an engine cutout when you are in the fast lane at 90mph is exciting, to say the least. My wife used to often phone me at work to give the location of the CX that she was unable to start, before catching a cab home. I would wander up at it started first time. Genuine French!

    It seems to be a weak point with the 2500 fuel injection engines. Apart from the obvious - state of the battery and connections, I would get new relays that are related to the electronic fuel injection. From memory, there was a big blue one that was very important. I think there are two sensors on the flywheel that I would replace and finally there are two coils (each running 2 cylinders). In theory, it should be a very simple system, but in practice I found it very temperemental.

    My car was owned whilst I was in the UK. The inclement weather played havoc with the wiring connections. I ended up soldering all the multiplug wires to remove the poor connection factor. They are, after all, only of use if the engine needs to be removed from the car (a fairly unlikely event for a CX).

    Buying new relays (and indeed new coils if you can) means that you can replace one at a time to ascertain which one is giving the problem.

    You have probably bought the best model CX, particularly if it is silver (gris perle). That is the model that is invariably featured in any magazine with an article on collectible classic CXs.

    John
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  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! DanielBendigo's Avatar
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    New CX owner-dash.jpgNew CX owner-engine.jpgNew CX owner-front-interior.jpgNew CX owner-front.jpgNew CX owner-pass-side-good.jpgNew CX owner-rear.jpgNew CX owner-right-side.jpgNew CX owner-roof.jpgNew CX owner-side.jpgNew CX owner-those-wires.jpg

    First time I've ever uploaded photo's to the forum, so hopefully these all work. It looks quite straight aside from a tiny rust bubble on the back driver side corner (far left of the drivers side photo). The vendor was pretty sure it didn't have any rust, but was at work when I rang, and given my past experience, I decided I didn't want to wait and would take the risk. I only paid $1000 for it, so I decided to take the risk particularly given how good it looked in the photos. If it was $1100, I don't think I would have bought it sight unseen.

    My uncle used to work in electrical stuff on airplanes, and I did consider seeking his assistance, then I decided he'd probably just compound the current situation. I think I agree with your suggestion John of leaving it in Melbourne, as long as my mother is happy to have it in the driveway. I only have one covered space at the moment, and now three cars.

    My introduction to French car ownership came two and a half years ago after a few too many beers I put in a low bid for an 8 year old Renault Clio through an online auction. Turns out no one else was bidding on the long weekend and I ended up with it. I could not believe how good it was for a small 1.4l 8 year old city hatch back, and I've been hooked since. I've found this forum brilliant, and most surprising of all I've had two problems diagnosed through typing the details. The technical knowledge is just amazing.

  11. #11
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    hate to be the bearer of bad news................... But most of those wires probably belong



    What is possible is you have headlight relays there. They melt the switch down and have massive voltage drop without them. Just tidy it all up and contain it in some split conduit after you have sussed it all out, and verified it's ok.

    If it was mine, I'd start with a pair of sidecutters. Any wire that's aftermarket I'd snip out ..... get everything back stock ... fix the initial problem that created that mess............... Then add the relays for starter and headlights. Tee them off the black supply junction down below the battery to try and keep the area above the battery free of extra wiring.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    Childhood dream... ditto. I got a simpler carburator 1982 model 2400 prestige. Was the car in SA once upon a time? Do u hav pics?

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Congrats. Probably the best CX variant, 2500ie, auto box=bliss. The problem with those 2500s though is the flywheel sensors, make sure you always have spares in the car. However there are only two things that will stop a car starting, no fuel or no spark. Pretty easy to tell if you have both. Other cars may list compression as a thing to check for no start but not on a CX.

    I think taking it to a specialist is going to be the cheapest in the long run, but it would be nice to drive it there if possible. If you squeeze the fuel line coming out of the filter with your fingers and get someone to crank the car over you will soon feel if the pump is OK. Then test/replace the flywheel sensors if there is no spark.

    Whilst at the specialist, get him to re-gas all spheres so you drive away as a CX really should
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    [QUOTE=DoubleChevron;1279192]hate to be the bearer of bad news................... But most of those wires probably belong /QUOTE]

    Including one wire with a purple female connector that ends in mid-air!

    Thanks for the photos, Daniel.

    Sounds like we're all more-or less on the same page with our experiences which should encourage you a bit.

    JBN, I've suffered similarly, just when I thought I'd solved the intermittent problem. The car was flat-bed-trucked home. Embarrassment. All OK now, 2 years later, with every component, every wire and connector cleaned, checked, rechecked and a new EFI ECU fitted.
    It was a wonderful reminder when I drove it after all that time, just how beautiful the ride is, far superior to our C5.
    Daniel you have a real treat in store, hopefully soon, when yours hits the road, especially if you follow Greg's suggestion of having the spheres checked and regassed.
    2006 C5 2.0 HDI estate - daily driver
    1981 2CV - The Amelie project is complete.
    1930 C6F torpedo - My Great Folly! Project under way.

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    JBN
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    Since you got the car for $1000, instead of the $1100 that you would be prepared to pay after looking at it first, you have in fact saved $100. Buy yourself a good camera and take some good photos out in the open. The paintwork is an excellent mirror, which seems a good omen for its condition. You just need to find a better setting for the photos to do the car justice (after you get it started, of course).

    Seriously, that looks like an absolute bargain. Once its sorted and the ride is to CX standards, that should be a real keeper. It will need injections of money over the years, but they just don't make cars with that level of style, comfort and sheer joy to drive long distances.

    Its actually the sort of car that Vic Police will be happy to photograph often. It just has those "photogenic" qualities about it. If it were mine, I would leave Victoria.

    John

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    Fellow Frogger! DanielBendigo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    Congrats. Probably the best CX variant, 2500ie, auto box=bliss. The problem with those 2500s though is the flywheel sensors, make sure you always have spares in the car. However there are only two things that will stop a car starting, no fuel or no spark. Pretty easy to tell if you have both. Other cars may list compression as a thing to check for no start but not on a CX.

    I think taking it to a specialist is going to be the cheapest in the long run, but it would be nice to drive it there if possible. If you squeeze the fuel line coming out of the filter with your fingers and get someone to crank the car over you will soon feel if the pump is OK. Then test/replace the flywheel sensors if there is no spark.

    Whilst at the specialist, get him to re-gas all spheres so you drive away as a CX really should
    The 2500i was the model I really wanted, but not too many at all imported to Australia. I think the rubber mouldings on the bumpers and thicker door mouldings (they look like it, but not sure if they are) make it look more modern that the earlier s1 CX's. They are few and far between, so I decided to take the risk on this one.

    I'm hoping to get it running, roadworthy and registered without spending too much (say $2-3k), within the next 2-3 months. I have 4 weeks off in October/November so it would be great to get it going before then (to be able to drive it), or spend that time getting it going. I can then do more later. I worry if I take too long before I get to drive it that I will lose interest.

    Any idea how much regassing of the spheres costs?

    My biggest dilemna so far, if I can't get it started, is there another way to get it up to be able to get it on a flat-bed? I also remember reading a post on here a while ago where someone had done an instruction sheet for anyone transporting a Citroen. I will hunt that out.

  17. #17
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanielBendigo View Post
    The 2500i was the model I really wanted, but not too many at all imported to Australia. I think the rubber mouldings on the bumpers and thicker door mouldings (they look like it, but not sure if they are) make it look more modern that the earlier s1 CX's. They are few and far between, so I decided to take the risk on this one.

    I'm hoping to get it running, roadworthy and registered without spending too much (say $2-3k), within the next 2-3 months. I have 4 weeks off in October/November so it would be great to get it going before then (to be able to drive it), or spend that time getting it going. I can then do more later. I worry if I take too long before I get to drive it that I will lose interest.

    Any idea how much regassing of the spheres costs?

    My biggest dilemna so far, if I can't get it started, is there another way to get it up to be able to get it on a flat-bed? I also remember reading a post on here a while ago where someone had done an instruction sheet for anyone transporting a Citroen. I will hunt that out.
    Bring it home and tinker yourself ... It's a shame your not in Ballarat You won't learn anything if you shove it off to a specialists.... but you sure will spend some coin (honestly I can't think of one you'd take a CX/GS or DS too either way ).

    I can probably regas the spheres if you get stuck. You'll have to rent the bottle of gas though, the bonus is you can regas as many spheres from it as you like for no extra cost.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    JBN
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    I've never tried it, but if you started with a fully charged battery and attached jumper leads to it from another vehicle, you could then run the starter, turning the engine and the HP pump to get the car to its ride height so it can be loaded on a flatbed.

    John

  19. #19
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Oh yeah .... flat tray truck, it's the only way to move them. They'll winch it on no problems Remember it has no brakes if it's not running!
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    Fellow Frogger! John P's Avatar
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    CCCV has a sphere checking and regassing unit. It is not far away from you at Cheltenham. The charge is $20 per sphere to members.
    gsowner84 likes this.
    2006 C5 2.0 HDI estate - daily driver
    1981 2CV - The Amelie project is complete.
    1930 C6F torpedo - My Great Folly! Project under way.

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! DanielBendigo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by John P View Post
    CCCV has a sphere checking and regassing unit. It is not far away from you at Cheltenham. The charge is $20 per sphere to members.
    Great, I joined CCCV at lunch time today. I was sure it would come in useful for something.

    I'm going to get a new battery for it, so at least I know I can rule out battery. The rego only expired two weeks ago too which is good so it has been driven a bit in the last 12 months. I'm assuming they wouldn't have renewed it if it wasn't driven at all for the year.

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    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Congrats, this looks like a very nice straight car.

    CX electrics are it's weakest component.

    the electrics in my turbo work intermittently, the intermittent wiper switch has worked twice since owning it, but mostly prefers not to work. the front windows have decided not to work from last weekend and sun roof but I leave that closed anyway.
    If someone could recommend a CX electrician I'd be booking it in for a complete upgrade.

    i have to move my donor soon, it won't start and I was thinking I might be able to get an electric hand drill onto the hydraulic pump.


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    The drill with a flexible drive is the way to go.Like John's mine used to stop every so often to admire the scenery. Replaced flywheel sensors.computers,coil pack and no change.Finally had an auto electrician put his computer on it;one of the four wires going to the sensors had a fracture inside the plastic hence the intermittent stopping,four inches of new wire and hey presto all good. The lesson I learnt is start with the atrocious wiring first and count the savings,Andy.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by alhantos View Post
    The drill with a flexible drive is the way to go.Like John's mine used to stop every so often to admire the scenery. Replaced flywheel sensors.computers,coil pack and no change.Finally had an auto electrician put his computer on it;one of the four wires going to the sensors had a fracture inside the plastic hence the intermittent stopping,four inches of new wire and hey presto all good. The lesson I learnt is start with the atrocious wiring first and count the savings,Andy.
    When I first got mine the first thing we did was load it up, throw a carvan on the back and head for Maleny QLD. A favorite past tiem was coasting to a halt on the side of the road to admire the scenery.... I'd pop the bonnet, jump out, shake all the wiring harnesses around the engine ... .jump back in and continue our trip... I reckon 10years later I've got nearly all the electrical issues licked You reckon the local cars were bad, try a a pommy ones that's full of black rott in it's wiring!

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    seriously though couldn't any decent auto electrician make some improvements, with a diagram? It can't be that hard (famous last words!)

    I've done as much as I can do; cleaned & tightened all the connections.


    Adrian

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    CX25 GTI Turbo series 1 1985
    DS23 IE Pallas 5sp 1974
    CX25ie Pallas Auto 1984 Parts
    2CV 1988
    CX25ie Pallas Auto 1984

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