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  1. #1
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    Default C5 ASR ABS blah blah

    Got a small problem with my 2004 C5 Hdi.
    Firstly I live on a slight hill, now when I leave my driveway and turn right [uphill] I only have to go about 100 mtrs before the road levels out, but I only pass one house before the ASR blah blah etc warning comes on and power is reduced. Answer is to stop and turn off the ign but I have to wait at least 2 minutes before restarting. Any shorter time doesn't remove the damn warning light.
    Now if I leave my driveway and turn left, [downhill] go past one house and turn left again, past two houses in a flat street and turn left once more, I'm then confronted with the same degree of gradient for about 500 mtrs, and encounter no problem whatsoever.

    So the obvious fix is, turn left only when leaving my driveway. Sounds good, both directions meet further up the road a bit, but its a pain really, because there's two sets of traffic lights when I turn left, none when I turn right.
    Bloody Qld Transport Dept.

    So what of the problem? I'm thinking wheel sensor or ABS unit fault. Going left I use the brakes lightly at the first and second corners, going right I don't usually use them at all. Cheers.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Split CV boot, coating the sensor ring with grease and brake dust?

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    Quote Originally Posted by shanadoo View Post
    Got a small problem with my 2004 C5 Hdi.
    Firstly I live on a slight hill, now when I leave my driveway and turn right [uphill] I only have to go about 100 mtrs before the road levels out, but I only pass one house before the ASR blah blah etc warning comes on and power is reduced. Answer is to stop and turn off the ign but I have to wait at least 2 minutes before restarting. Any shorter time doesn't remove the damn warning light.
    Now if I leave my driveway and turn left, [downhill] go past one house and turn left again, past two houses in a flat street and turn left once more, I'm then confronted with the same degree of gradient for about 500 mtrs, and encounter no problem whatsoever.

    So the obvious fix is, turn left only when leaving my driveway. Sounds good, both directions meet further up the road a bit, but its a pain really, because there's two sets of traffic lights when I turn left, none when I turn right.
    Bloody Qld Transport Dept.

    So what of the problem? I'm thinking wheel sensor or ABS unit fault. Going left I use the brakes lightly at the first and second corners, going right I don't usually use them at all. Cheers.
    I have the identical problem with my 2002 2l HDI and have had it since April. I have no choice about the direction i leave home and i confront a steepish hill within 100 yards. It also happens when leaving work, this time on the level and within 200 yards after two minor brake presses. It's annoying but not a show stopper. It consistently does this when the engine is cold. If I let the engine idle for 5 minutes before leaving in the morning, no problems even on a frosty day. I'd love to know exactlyl where to go to home in on the problem and I'm scared to take it to the dealer to let loose an apprentice on this one.

    I think others have had this problem too, Dogboy for one.

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    Default A B bloody S !

    Hi
    Well owning a modern Citroen is certainly a learning experience
    I have no idea but an obvious answer is to put a diagnostic tool on it and see what it says
    Note that AFAIK the sensors work on the "rubber" seals in the wheel bearings which have magnetic poles built into them. Dirty as Addo says ??
    jaahn

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    You need to read the fault codes to begin with. ABS faults happen for a variety of reasons like the brake pedal switch, wiring connectors and so on. The 'clockspring' in the Comm unit (the thing with the lighting and indicator stalks) or the steering angle sensor could be to blame or even the accelerometer unit buried between the front seats. Another issue is differing tyre size and/or wear on the same axle pair. Turning one way could just be enough to confuse the ABS where it may be OK the other direction.

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    I had basically this on the crash magnet (Alfa 147). First decent turn right or left from a gentle stop shortly after startup, thence fire-and-brimstone dire warnings... Cause? Split CV boot, covering the sensed area in grease and carbon/metallic junk.

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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Split CV boot, coating the sensor ring with grease and brake dust?
    couldn't see any splits but sprayed sensor ring area with brakeclean a few days ago, no fix. Was thinking of removing the sensors for a look but, like ScotFrog if I let it idle for at least 4 mins there's no problem so that sort of rules out any unsprung stuff. Maybe? Maybe not.
    I'm determined to find this bug. Although I have trouble doing stuff at the moment. Go in for hernia op later this month, will then have to wait for the recovery period, however long that is? before I start climbing around in the engine room.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shanadoo View Post
    couldn't see any splits but sprayed sensor ring area with brakeclean a few days ago, no fix. Was thinking of removing the sensors for a look but, like ScotFrog if I let it idle for at least 4 mins there's no problem so that sort of rules out any unsprung stuff. Maybe? Maybe not.
    I'm determined to find this bug. Although I have trouble doing stuff at the moment. Go in for hernia op later this month, will then have to wait for the recovery period, however long that is? before I start climbing around in the engine room.
    Hernia? been there done that. Took about 2 weeks before I felt like poking about in the engine room. Citroen engine room that is.

    Thanks for advice on Lexia David S. I'm a bit hesitant about these since I read somewhere (Aussiefrogs?) that the 2002 HDi is fussy about which Lexia can interrogate it and I don't want to lay out cash unless I am sure it will work.

    My problems started soon after a service where front discs and pads were replaced. Co-incidental?

    SF

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotFrog View Post
    Hernia? been there done that. Took about 2 weeks before I felt like poking about in the engine room. Citroen engine room that is.

    Thanks for advice on Lexia David S. I'm a bit hesitant about these since I read somewhere (Aussiefrogs?) that the 2002 HDi is fussy about which Lexia can interrogate it and I don't want to lay out cash unless I am sure it will work.

    My problems started soon after a service where front discs and pads were replaced. Co-incidental?

    SF
    Judging by various Citroen forums around the world, this is not an uncommon problem with early C5s. Quite a few members are reporting that a Lexia conversation has been a waste of time and money. Evidently it continuously throws up the same fault codes, which it turns out, have no link to these immediate issues. Found one poor guy who, after only having the car a few months was forced into selling it again because he needed reliable transport. Others are reporting a Lexia diagnosed fix by replacing this or that part, only to have the same problems reoccur a few weeks or months further down the track. I've never had much success with getting a fault code diagnosed, had almost as many plug ins as I had hot feeds in the car's early life. Most times no recorded fault was found and the clear and whatever would only last 1Hr or 1 day, [mostly from Brisbane Citroen], whereas another time I doubt they even bothered to do anything except hand me the bill. One Lexia download, by private garage, lasted 150Mtrs to the other side of the 6 lane highway before the fuel problem resurfaced. Sort of makes it hard for customers to come back with a complaint. Although I admit I had bargained with the guy until he settled on $50 for the download, so my fault I guess, I was aiming for $20.
    Bit of a waffle as usual, but to date no cure has been logged here or overseas to my knowledge. That's my luck. Cheers.
    Last edited by shanadoo; 12th August 2014 at 03:25 PM.

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    my issue was with a 2 litre hdi bw trans...C5 I would get both abs/esp & anti pollution lights...the physical symptons were no power above 3000 rpm..ok..so no turbo kicking in
    the cars computer will not allow the turbo to operate if certain parameters are not fulfilled...
    I had cleaned up the MAF (sensor after airfilter ) but had not checked the airfilter (which an invoice had shown was changed)
    after taking off the airfilter it was clear a large amount of dust/debris/sand had been sucked into the airbox...not got past the filter but had clogged it restricting airflow..
    I cleaned the airfilter,sucked up the debris and made sure the large air duct was good and not collapsed...
    put it all back together & BINGO
    she works beautifully...still an anti pollution code but I suspect that's an old error reading...
    fingers crossed
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    Default C5 faults !!

    Hi
    My take on these faults generally, is that Citroen software engineers working on the C5 project got carried away. They thought the complete computer control of everything was the answer to, well everything. So they set the parameters very tight for detecting faults and thought the owners would come in and have faults fixed.
    Particularly the pollution faults as they thought these were important for the overall environment. Good idea in principle, but as it turned out the parameters are too tight and in the real world the faults are triggered much too easily. Also the diagnostic software is crap too and does not actually pinpoint the real causes. Usual software crap.
    So here we are years down the track putting up with these random faults and getting annoyed. The answer in the long run would be to reset the fault parameters in the software and everyone would be happy with a great car. Any takers ??
    jaahn
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    A hardware delete is the best approach. Delete C5, reinstall Xantia.

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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    A hardware delete is the best approach. Delete C5, reinstall Xantia.
    Good idea, I'm thinking of deleting the C5 and installing a 1999 Honda Accord. Son had one, damn good trouble free car, until his son wrote it off. Only mild thoughts though.

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    Right hernia open surgery over, now just a matter of waiting until I can feel my black balls again and they go back to their usual color.
    And waiting for the soreness from the incision across my belly to settle down---and of course there's the bladder problem to overcome and ----ahh stuff it, on to the C5==I've cleaned the seal surfaces and the ABS sensor, and have had no further warnings. But then I've given up turning right from my driveway.
    Anyway I still have to warm the thing up for a few minutes when cold otherwise there's no power forthcoming. What I have found is the HP pump fuel control solenoid is receiving constant voltage when cold under load. This limits the output from the HP pump and of course the turbo won't spool up. However, when stationary [engine running] a brief rev will momentarily cut the voltage from the solenoid thereby allowing full fuel and causing the turbo to build a flash pressure. [reading taken on gauge]. System normal. But as soon as the vehicle is moving, the voltage to the said solenoid remains constant. No fuel, no turbo. After a few minutes idle or around about 500 mtrs travel the voltage is suddenly cut to the solenoid [driving with volt meter connected] under acceleration, and full engine power is restored.
    After that it's fine, solenoid voltage is cut under power and is reapplied under throttle off, deceleration or idle conditions. Perfectly normal. Done all of the usual tests with waste gate vacuum operation etc and everything operates as normal. Replaced the MAF, no fix.
    Overseas forums indicate this is a common problem, [the warm up bit, no power, ASR Abs etc] but so far no one has posted a fix. Downloads produce zilch evidently, except a big bill for guessing what it could be or might be.
    I myself think it's a sticking solenoid within the ABS unit, which has to heat up electrically before operating correctly. The ABS is linked to the engine management system controlling power output, ie when the ABS is activated the engine power is reduced accordingly regardless of the throttle position. So that's my thought at the moment, further testing at later date. Warming the thing up every day is a pain in the whatsit, so any non rude advice or ideas on the subject [the C5 that is] will be most welcome. You may even win the hospital grade yellow lollipop I nicked.
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    Interesting theory. I presume you've read all about the Eurotrash with faulty ESP pressure sensors.

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    Well, I did as Dogboy suggested, cleaned and refitted the air filter. The housing was pristine but the filter did not look as if it had been replaced for a while. I'll get a new one next week and replace it. I shook, banged and vacuumed the filter before refitting but won't know till my next cold start if the problem has been addressed.

    However..... HELP! I took some time and went round the car doing a visual check of all fittings and connections and came across a problem. First the hydraulic fluid reservoir is on the low side and checking further revealed a damp, leaking fluid area around the front right hand strut. Then I discovered a loose fluid return line. Bingo, the source of the dampness. The rubber tube has been cut or fatigued just where it plugs onto the rigid pipe leading back to the reservoir.

    My questions are. 'should I plug this back together risking contamination of the reservoir fluid or has that already happened?', and is topping up the reservoir a no-no without the ability to pressurise the system?'. I do have a compressor and pressure gauge but am not sure how this would help.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotFrog View Post
    Well, I did as Dogboy suggested, cleaned and refitted the air filter. The housing was pristine but the filter did not look as if it had been replaced for a while. I'll get a new one next week and replace it. I shook, banged and vacuumed the filter before refitting but won't know till my next cold start if the problem has been addressed.

    However..... HELP! I took some time and went round the car doing a visual check of all fittings and connections and came across a problem. First the hydraulic fluid reservoir is on the low side and checking further revealed a damp, leaking fluid area around the front right hand strut. Then I discovered a loose fluid return line. Bingo, the source of the dampness. The rubber tube has been cut or fatigued just where it plugs onto the rigid pipe leading back to the reservoir.

    My questions are. 'should I plug this back together risking contamination of the reservoir fluid or has that already happened?', and is topping up the reservoir a no-no without the ability to pressurise the system?'. I do have a compressor and pressure gauge but am not sure how this would help.
    Strut return is a common failure, easy to replace and not horribly expensive you'll need new clamps if not supplied with the hose (may as well do the other side at the same time). The clamp is a bugger to remove without the correct tool, I can't remember the name for these pliers but someone here will chime in.

    Fluid level is checked with the car on the LOW setting, it should be about half way up the reservoir at around the seam. No need to de-pressurise - Dont' over fill!! You can cause the reservoir to split. Usual Citro-aerobics after job is complete a few high/low suspension changes will get rid of any air.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Interesting theory. I presume you've read all about the Eurotrash with faulty ESP pressure sensors.
    ??????????? Eurotrash ???????????????? to quote the redhead lady "please explain". I'm new here.

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    Did a bit more searching on the problem and everyone with an answer is now blaming the ABS unit brake pressure sensor.

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    Quote Originally Posted by shanadoo View Post
    Did a bit more searching on the problem and everyone with an answer is now blaming the ABS unit brake pressure sensor.
    This is very likely since my problem only started after a service involving replacement discs and shoes. Where do I find the sensor?

    SF

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    It's integrated into your ABS bloc. Nice work by Teves and Bosch...

    By Eurotrash I meant in a jocularly derogatory fashion, the "everyday" cars made and sold in Europe, some of which we (as an unwashed and barely informed collective) here unjustifiably place on a pedestal to worship.
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    It's integrated into your ABS bloc. Nice work by Teves and Bosch...

    By Eurotrash I meant in a jocularly derogatory fashion, the "everyday" cars made and sold in Europe, some of which we (as an unwashed and barely informed collective) here unjustifiably place on a pedestal to worship.
    Hi Addo
    Speak for yourself please. I certainly do not put any other cars on a pedestal European or otherwise.

    To the ABS.
    It is almost certainly IMHO a Bosch unit in the C5. The pressure sensor can be checked in real time with a Lexia type tool. Probably replaceable too.
    If its a Teeves its a different story and probably the car models are different so do not jump to that conclusion. It too can be checked in real time for operation, or the fault log.
    I would think it's not the ABS unit until its proven guilty with real facts. The pressure sensor has not much connection to new discs and shoes. Perhaps a good bleed would help. There are connectors in the wiring etc that also could be checked.
    Jaahn
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi Addo
    Speak for yourself please. I certainly do not put any other cars on a pedestal European or otherwise.

    To the ABS.
    It is almost certainly IMHO a Bosch unit in the C5. The pressure sensor can be checked in real time with a Lexia type tool. Probably replaceable too.
    If its a Teeves its a different story and probably the car models are different so do not jump to that conclusion. It too can be checked in real time for operation, or the fault log.
    I would think it's not the ABS unit until its proven guilty with real facts. The pressure sensor has not much connection to new discs and shoes. Perhaps a good bleed would help. There are connectors in the wiring etc that also could be checked.
    Jaahn
    Hi jaahn, interesting to hear this, the many overseas blogs on this problem nearly all state a download session didn't indicate any problem, with no fault recorded, or with other unrelated items being at fault, such as the MAF. I guess it all depends upon the technician's interpretation skill. So far no one, including Renman, who of course are trying to flog their replacement units, has come up with a positive answer. But then again, bloggers rarely re-post when a problem is sorted so we're all left wondering. Unfortunately no one can be assured that the same item is the cause of the same problem every time. Maybe a diagnostic download on a 4 wheel rolling road may give some answers. Exorbitant cost though.
    So far I've checked every connection and every wire for continuity/voltage and of course given the system a power bleed. Results Zilch.
    After many deep thinks, made an interesting discovery last night when starting from cold and driving off with no warm up. If I don't use the brakes except for a bare careful minimum of pedal pressure to release the park mode, and then use only the handbrake if needed for 1/2 a mile or so, there's no power loss problem, car operates as it should. Of course I only get a few minutes try before it's systems normal, so it's a quick one off test. But now I'm wondering if the problem arises from the normal initial brake application to release park mode. Might explain why the engine tests ok with a stationary vehicle [no ABS etc requirement] but instantly drops off when under way. More work to do I guess. Cheers.

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    After many deep thinks, made an interesting discovery last night when starting from cold and driving off with no warm up. If I don't use the brakes except for a bare careful minimum of pedal pressure to release the park mode, and then use only the handbrake if needed for 1/2 a mile or so, there's no power loss problem, car operates as it should. Of course I only get a few minutes try before it's systems normal, so it's a quick one off test. But now I'm wondering if the problem arises from the normal initial brake application to release park mode. Might explain why the engine tests ok with a stationary vehicle [no ABS etc requirement] but instantly drops off when under way. More work to do I guess. Cheers.[/QUOTE]

    I've heard David S mention the brake switch when faulty can also play havoc...could this be the problem?
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    Thanks for the interest dogboy but I tested the wiring etc and replaced the switch. I keep some "just in case" spares on hand, buy 'em when I see 'em going cheap. They'll always break on the weekend when everything's closed. Cheers.

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