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    Default Lift wanted

    Well not for a long distance, perhaps once around the block and over a few speed bumps. I remember the DS23 I had quite a long time ago but due to circumstances beyond my control it was sold.
    The past 15 years or so involved BXs. Now it seems possible to go down the alphabet and get a reasonable CX, but before I break the piggy bank I'd like to know what the ride is like. Obviously if it is far removed from the magic D, as are the BXs then it does not make sense.
    Now if there is a Frog lover in the Melb. area that could give me a short ride I'd be very grateful. Actually anyone between Traralgon and the city would also do the trick.
    Alternatively anyone who has had experience with both Ds and CXs please let me have your thoughts.

    Rim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimzit View Post
    Well not for a long distance, perhaps once around the block and over a few speed bumps. I remember the DS23 I had quite a long time ago but due to circumstances beyond my control it was sold.
    The past 15 years or so involved BXs. Now it seems possible to go down the alphabet and get a reasonable CX, but before I break the piggy bank I'd like to know what the ride is like. Obviously if it is far removed from the magic D, as are the BXs then it does not make sense.
    Now if there is a Frog lover in the Melb. area that could give me a short ride I'd be very grateful. Actually anyone between Traralgon and the city would also do the trick.
    Alternatively anyone who has had experience with both Ds and CXs please let me have your thoughts.

    Rim.
    Hi Rim,unfortunately you are a bit far away to take you for a run but the ride in my 85cx25ieauto is far and above more comfortable than any D that I have owned;the only examples that come close are the ds19s and id19s. Think of your favourite armchair to get the idea,Andy.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    early narrow track CX's are very good, as good as you can get without buying a DS ( except of course a GS ... those little suckers are brilliant) The later CX's with bigger front suspension cylinders slightly less so, but very good for what they are, you wouldn't want the extra power with the super "floatyness" of the DS. Wagons and prestiges (wagons in particular) and extremely close to the DS ride quality. CX wagons even have DS rear 2peice spheres.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rimzit View Post
    Well not for a long distance, perhaps once around the block and over a few speed bumps. I remember the DS23 I had quite a long time ago but due to circumstances beyond my control it was sold.
    The past 15 years or so involved BXs. Now it seems possible to go down the alphabet and get a reasonable CX, but before I break the piggy bank I'd like to know what the ride is like. Obviously if it is far removed from the magic D, as are the BXs then it does not make sense.
    Now if there is a Frog lover in the Melb. area that could give me a short ride I'd be very grateful. Actually anyone between Traralgon and the city would also do the trick.
    Alternatively anyone who has had experience with both Ds and CXs please let me have your thoughts.

    Rim.
    Bottom line is; if you're tall and don't like your feet cooked away in summer than keep away from the CX.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Le Parisian View Post
    Bottom line is; if you're tall and don't like your feet cooked away in summer than keep away from the CX.
    Your CX floors get hot in summer... strange mine don't do that ... A CX prestige has almost adequate head room.

    CX's are D's are quite different. It never ceases to amaze me how some strongly dislike the CX ... but love the D, and vice versa.... There cars, just accept them for all there flaws and enjoy (trust me they both have plenty of flaws.... ). I'll take a couple of each thanks

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    '78 GS1220 pallas
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Your CX floors get hot in summer... strange mine don't do that ... A CX prestige has almost adequate head room.

    CX's are D's are quite different. It never ceases to amaze me how some strongly dislike the CX ... but love the D, and vice versa.... There cars, just accept them for all there flaws and enjoy (trust me they both have plenty of flaws.... ). I'll take a couple of each thanks

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    I love the looks of CX but it looks difficult to repair because there are so many electronics and wiring. I dont like of looks of GS but I would like to get one one day because it looks so much simpler than CX and 2 cylinder air cooled engine! It looks liek perfect car for daily drive.
    But really, I would like to have a 2CV as well.
    Last edited by caparobertsan; 2nd July 2014 at 05:10 PM.
    1961 Citroen ID19(2010~), Holden Frontera(R.I.P 2002-2014), Honda Accord EURO(2006~)

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    Fellow Frogger! Mungous's Avatar
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    My 2c:

    I love the DS but wouldn't touch a CX. Any CX. The design compromises in a CX astound me - the DS got a motor that was already 20 years old in 1955 due to the dramas of the proposed flat-6, and somehow the same damn engine found its way into the front of a CX until 1989?! And the inherent weight distribution of a car with the entire drivetrain in front of the front wheels may help it fly straight as an arrow, but it also corners like an arrow. The last-minute half-arsed engineering is also evident from the engine mounts - how long does a dog bone last? Two weeks? Less if you drive vigorously.

    Maybe a triple-rotor rotary with the gearbox on the back a la GS Birotor would have made it a better car in that respect, but I am yet to meet anyone who considers the aesthetics of a CX to be in the same galaxy as a DS.

    CXs do have a lovely ride, but there is nothing else about them that inspires me to consider them to be a great CitroŽn.

    A GS/GSA is a much cooler car IMHO.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungous View Post
    My 2c:

    I love the DS but wouldn't touch a CX. Any CX. The design compromises in a CX astound me - the DS got a motor that was already 20 years old in 1955 due to the dramas of the proposed flat-6, and somehow the same damn engine found its way into the front of a CX until 1989?! And the inherent weight distribution of a car with the entire drivetrain in front of the front wheels may help it fly straight as an arrow, but it also corners like an arrow. The last-minute half-arsed engineering is also evident from the engine mounts - how long does a dog bone last? Two weeks? Less if you drive vigorously.

    Maybe a triple-rotor rotary with the gearbox on the back a la GS Birotor would have made it a better car in that respect, but I am yet to meet anyone who considers the aesthetics of a CX to be in the same galaxy as a DS.

    CXs do have a lovely ride, but there is nothing else about them that inspires me to consider them to be a great CitroŽn.

    A GS/GSA is a much cooler car IMHO.
    CX's handle really nicely ... Have you ever driven a GTi Turbo with good tires They can be "taily" on loose gravel as the narrower width rear wheels travel over ground not swept clean by the drive wheels...... but that's all fun.

    Triple rotor ?? bugger that.... huge fuel usage and not torque... Ever driven a 30year old petrol turbo 300Nm of torque with barely any boost lag. Just the way modern turbo motors work.... and it's near indestructable unlike frail rotaries with the dodgy apex seals.

    A CX 2500 GTi Turbo II Prestige would have to be the pinaccle of all Citroens. Adequate power, 220km/h+ cruising speeds, brilliant handling, arrow like stability. But with the extra head room and bigger back door and leg room in the back of the station wagon body.

    Have a read here:
    Three Turbos...

    seeya,
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    I've driven many CX Turbos, including the original GTi Turbo, Turbo 2, turbo-diesel and a Maikonics-tweaked monster that melted its own brake caliper seals if you pushed it too hard. Most had the Michelin TRXs, and they seemed to work very well. But there is no hiding the weight distribution issue. The laws of physics prevent a car with a 70:30 weight distribution being good at changing direction.

    A rotary may have addressed the weight distribution issue, but you are right, it would also have given rise to many other horrors!

    I suspect that the turbocharged Traction Avant motor had little lag because it doesn't rev high enough to be able to use any high rpm boost. I've driven a fair few old turbo cars, including a 1980 Porsche 930, so I know all about hideous 80s turbo lag...

    CXs are definitely best enjoyed in the specification you describe - on long open roads with a long wheelbase, lots of space, bags of torque and no clutch pedal. :-)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungous View Post
    I've driven many CX Turbos, including the original GTi Turbo, Turbo 2, turbo-diesel and a Maikonics-tweaked monster that melted its own brake caliper seals if you pushed it too hard. Most had the Michelin TRXs, and they seemed to work very well. But there is no hiding the weight distribution issue. The laws of physics prevent a car with a 70:30 weight distribution being good at changing direction.

    A rotary may have addressed the weight distribution issue, but you are right, it would also have given rise to many other horrors!

    I suspect that the turbocharged Traction Avant motor had little lag because it doesn't rev high enough to be able to use any high rpm boost. I've driven a fair few old turbo cars, including a 1980 Porsche 930, so I know all about hideous 80s turbo lag...

    CXs are definitely best enjoyed in the specification you describe - on long open roads with a long wheelbase, lots of space, bags of torque and no clutch pedal. :-)
    Yep, you know for a public road I can't think of anything better. It's not a racecar that needs 50/50 weight distribution, it's a family sedan that'll do *exactly* what you need to save your skin under almost any road conditions that you'll encounter. The old CX have saved my skin too many times to count, where it has managed to swerve/brake/do the seemingly impossible on the spur of the moment to avoid an accident.

    seeya,
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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    Au contraire!

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    This is more like what I mean ... it'll save your skin someday ...



    The brake test is the interesting one .... Note: 100% control-ability to swerve/avoid what your trying to no to crash into ............. But I reckon it doesn't pull up any more quickly than the others.

    BTW: Clutch pedal?? Mines finger light, and brilliant .... Dunno what your on about
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    Weight distribution figures are quoted without luggage and passengers aren't they? WOuldn't 70/30 become rather more like 50/50 once you add some passengers, luggage and fuel?

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    [QUOTE=Mungous;1268587]I've driven many CX Turbos, including the original GTi Turbo, Turbo 2, turbo-diesel and a Maikonics-tweaked monster that melted its own brake caliper seals if you pushed it too hard. Most had the Michelin TRXs, and they seemed to work very well. But there is no hiding the weight distribution issue. The laws of physics prevent a car with a 70:30 weight distribution being good at changing direction.

    A rotary may have addressed the weight distribution issue, but you are right, it would also have given rise to many other horrors!

    I suspect that the turbocharged Traction Avant motor had little lag because it doesn't rev high enough to be able to use any high rpm boost. I've driven a fair few old turbo cars, including a 1980 Porsche 930, so I know all about hideous 80s turbo lag...

    CXs are definitely best enjoyed in the specification you describe - on long open roads with a long wheelbase, lots of space, bags of torque and no clutch pedal. :-)[Beg to differ but you are discounting the fact that it is front wheel drive;there is only one golden rule when motoring quickly in a citroen,do not enter a corner quicker than you plan to leave it,in other words be sure you have power on tap to pull you through,Andy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Clutch pedal?? Mines finger light, and brilliant .... Dunno what your on about
    I've always felt that the laid-back character of the car meant that it suited the auto. Admittedly the 3-speed is no technological masterpiece, but as I said, the car is in its element cruising on the open road where very few gears and a lazy shift makes no difference.
    Quote Originally Posted by alhantos View Post
    Beg to differ but you are discounting the fact that it is front wheel drive;there is only one golden rule when motoring quickly in a citroen,do not enter a corner quicker than you plan to leave it,in other words be sure you have power on tap to pull you through,Andy.
    There are plenty of front wheel drive cars with much better weight distribution. In fact, almost all of them. Even an old longitudinal engined Audi has most of its gearbox behind the front wheels - but the CX has its entire drivetrain in front of the front wheels. If you brake hard enough in a CX the rear wheels virtually come off the ground!

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    They are fantastic at open road cruising but better than you may expect on hard cornering duties. The road tests of the time loved the cars roadholding if not the handling so much. I swapped into my CXs from a Pug 504 and it was wearing TRX's for most of its life. There is a corner near my home leading to a bridge over the Woronora river. The speed advisory sign says 55km/hr as it is downhill and the camber is the wrong way. I put the Pug into it at 120km one night and a bit twitchy, one daren't lift off. After I got the first CX it was given the same treatment. Not at all flustered, I could have taken it faster I suppose but the difference between the two was obvious. After that I have always had a CX. Stable in the extreme, which is just what you want if you are keen to push a car a bit harder than you really should.

    The latest example was our western trip. Overtaking road trains on bumpy, windy road needs a CX.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungous View Post
    I've always felt that the laid-back character of the car meant that it suited the auto. Admittedly the 3-speed is no technological masterpiece, but as I said, the car is in its element cruising on the open road where very few gears and a lazy shift makes no difference.

    There are plenty of front wheel drive cars with much better weight distribution. In fact, almost all of them. Even an old longitudinal engined Audi has most of its gearbox behind the front wheels - but the CX has its entire drivetrain in front of the front wheels. If you brake hard enough in a CX the rear wheels virtually come off the ground!
    Gees what CX's have you driven..... Mine sucks the arse end down under braking..... The anchors on the damn things are phenomenal !



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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Gees what CX's have you driven..... Mine sucks the arse end down under braking..... The anchors on the damn things are phenomenal !
    To be fair, that was the tweaked one, running track-spec tyres - which probably also explains why its calipers melted!

    But the point remains that all that weight dangling out the front causes as much of a problem as a 911 with its weight out the back.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungous View Post
    ..... causes as much of a problem as a 911 with its weight out the back.
    Have you actually driven a Porsche 911?
    roger (911 owner)

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    Yep - a number of different cars, a '67 T, a 1980 930, various other 964s and a 997. The engineering of the modern cars has done an utterly magnificent job of addressing the inherent flaw in the basic design.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungous View Post
    Yep - a number of different cars, a '67 T, a 1980 930, various other 964s and a 997. The engineering of the modern cars has done an utterly magnificent job of addressing the inherent flaw in the basic design.
    So why do you make a statement that is, by your admission, incorrect?
    My experience of sane road use is that braking into a downhill adversely cambered wet corner may cause lack of front end grip but rear grip is not a issue.
    roger

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    Erm, I said the weight out the back was a problem. Which it is. And I said it has been expertly engineered to have minimal impact in the modern cars. Which is also true.

    Lifting off mid-corner in an old 911 (especially short wheelbase ones) is a sure-fire method for inducing a spin.

    This has nothing to do with the CX, however...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungous View Post
    Lifting off mid-corner in an old 911 (especially short wheelbase ones) is a sure-fire method for inducing a spin.
    I have seen more than one with rear end damage having been reversed into scenery (Earlier models that is).
    Any day I wake up and don't have to go to work, is a good day
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungous View Post
    Erm, I said the weight out the back was a problem. Which it is. And I said it has been expertly engineered to have minimal impact in the modern cars. Which is also true.

    Lifting off mid-corner in an old 911 (especially short wheelbase ones) is a sure-fire method for inducing a spin.

    This has nothing to do with the CX, however...
    Well, let's get back to the CX then.
    I drove CX's as daily transport for over 10 years, and in that time I had reason to thank the handling dynamics for saving my life on a couple of occasions. Your claim "If you brake hard enough in a CX the rear wheels virtually come off the ground!" is fanciful, and not a true description. The harder you brake in a CX, the more it squats at the rear.
    roger

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    Hope all of the above clears matters up for you, Rim . I guess this thread confirms that owners are indeed passionate about their citroens!

    I'd stick to your plan of going for a run in both D and CX, getting a gut feeling for what you like. I like the CXs and their look - you can certainly tell they're related to the D while looking different at first glance. They are both magic cars & streets ahead of many - probably most - of their contemporaries (and I would argue most later cars as well - but maybe I'm laying it on a bit thickly here). Of course I'm speaking generally, as both Ds and CXs offer a wide range of experience in terms of models.

    The D will always be the standout for me, but I'm not very familiar with later Ds, having used an Id as daily driver, until fairly recently, since I was 19 (now 50). Later Ds are more plentiful and on balance easier to maintain, but generally feel different to the earlier cars. For me, there is a relaxed, open comfort and sophistication with the D model which is simply glorious and perhaps the earlier you go, the more accentuated this feeling (not that I propose you go for an earlier car per se- ie 60s - as they have their own challenges!).

    There is probably more to go wrong - in terms of electrics - in the CX (certainly when compared with earlier Ds) and this might make ownership less fun. But they also represent good buying, with seemingly great examples available for not much money.

    If you're into classic citroens, and it sounds like you have experience with a D, I reckon that is the car you will come back to. If you develop the affliction you will probably want more than one model anyway!? A friend who has many cars tells me that he has one of each model citroen. Not sure where he hides them all. I've moved onto Traction Avant now....we'll see how that goes. Best wishes, would be interesting to hear how your interests develop. There seem to be a few good CXs for sale at the moment, maybe time for a test run? Good Luck!

    Tim

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