Switch ECU with used ECU
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Thread: Switch ECU with used ECU

  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Switch ECU with used ECU

    Hi all,

    My Berlingo has been misfiring after warm up and the engine light stays on (flashes while misfiring). After trying the usual suspects such as plugs, ignition coil, oxy sensors etc I took it to an auto-electrician. He eventually said that the problem was with the ECU and also recommended replacing the injectors and injector sub-harness. He suggested replacing the ECU with a "security key kit". He was unable to source a used ECU kit at the time.

    I have now got a similar model Berlingo for parts with a Sagem ECU that seems identical. During my search for a used ECU a wrecker told me that switching the parts over is pretty straight forward.

    So my question is; do I just change the ECU, ignition barrel and immobiliser? Do I need to change the BSI too? Is any programming required or should it just work once all the components are switched?

    I'll change the injectors and sub harness of course.

    If it all goes pear shaped can I put everything back again???

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    Any replies much appreciated...

    Michael.

    2001 Berlingo 1.4

    (For spares 2002 Berlingo 1.4)

  2. #2
    Demannu-facturing! Demannu's Avatar
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    If he cannot be sure whether it is the harness, injectors or ECU, find another auto electrician.
    shanadoo likes this.
    Scotty

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  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger
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    Quote Originally Posted by berlingogo View Post
    ...
    If it all goes pear shaped can I put everything back again???
    ...
    No! If you swap the engine ECU by itself, the car will not run as the VIN coded into the engine ECU will not match the one in the BSI. Also, the car will record the highest odometer reading of the connected engine ECU, BSI and dash components, so your low miles car may become a very high miles car instantly.

    Swap the fuel rail and injectors first as they are often a problem rather than an engine ECU. The coolant temperature sensor is another component that can let you down, so swap that before fiddling with any ECU.

    What fuel are you using? It needs to be 95 or better. If you are using the lower octane fuel, try better fuel first.

  4. #4
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    +1 for David. I am absolutely loathe to replace an ECU unless I can be sure that's the problem. They're usually one of the most expensive parts to replace, they rarely fail, and anymore you need specialized equipment to properly code them to your car. A wiring harness check is a bit of a pain, but any reasonably skilled electrician can do that relatively easily with the proper diagram. A carburettor/FI specialist can check the rail and injectors quickly.

    Have you done any mechanical checks, such as a compression test or check for a blown head gasket? Does the car overheat? Swapping plug wires would be a really easy check- take the wire from the misfiring cylinder, swap it to another cylinder and see if your problem migrates. Got a loose or broken ground wire?

    Remember Berlingogo- simple and stupid first, then move on to the more exotic answers. Your sparky should learn it, live it, love it.
    shanadoo likes this.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger
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    No plug leads on this engine. The coil pack is one of those single units that is sealed and supplies all four cylinders.

    I assume you've changed the fuel filter, but checking the fuel pressure and pump performance is a good suggestion?

    Thinking further ... the most common faults with that 1.4 engine would be coil pack, oxygen sensor on the manifold and injectors. Less common issues would be the motorised throttle and the engine harness - make sure it's not pulling against any of the connectors. I'm surprised it was possible to unscrew the upstream sensor on not just one, but both vehicles. Sometimes the manifold has distorted so the sensor cannot be removed. The heater circuit of the sensor is the one that usually fails.

    Has anyone read the fault codes?

    The coolant temp sensor is something that can fail and you then have the engine light on and fans go to full speed almost immediately although it's still stone cold. See if you get the same behaviour with that unplugged. It's at the gearbox end of the head and has a blue body from memory.

    It's also not that uncommon to find a blown head gasket with the older Berlingo models. You have to carefully check the top of the liner where the break is as you can find erosion at the top face of the liner. If that's the case, you change the liner.

  6. #6
    Tadpole
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    Thanks everyone for your detailed replies. I have also changed the fuel filter and the auto elec performed a compression test. The car has overheated a couple of times very suddenly, causing the stop light to come on. I thought that it may have had something to do with apparently dodgy ECU… The sub harness (the short T shaped wiring that plugs directly into the injectors) is visibly frayed with exposed wire… I suppose I took the auto elecs word that the problem is the ECU, so I might try switching the sub harness first. Then maybe injectors and fuel rail. I have the 2002 model for wrecking, so it's no drama to pull parts out and switch them around.

    The auto elec for whatever reason said that the ECU was the problem, but suggested that the injectors and harness be renewed because he suspected that the injectors or sub harness may have caused the ECU problem…

    Coolant sensor is a good tip. I'll try unplugging that and see what happens…

    So if all that fails… switch ECU, barrel, immobiliser, dash cluster and BSI and it should be good to go??? No programming required???

    (Regarding the oxy sensors, I had no hope of removing them myself…my local mechanic was kind enough to loosen them for me)

    Michael.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger
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    If the harness is frayed and you have a better one, yes, change it. Or repair the old one enough so it can't short.

    When you say it overheated, do you mean it actually overheated or just that the warning on the dash came up? A faulty coolant sensor can make it look like it is overheating, but it is not.

    If it is actually overheating, check the coolant level (The bleed points are on the thermostat housing and the heater connection at the firewall), thermostat operation and make sure the fans are actually running, because the resistor pack can fail and you often lose low speed.

  8. #8
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    They're also right ones for a false alarm on overheating, like the C3.

  9. #9
    Tadpole
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    Hi David, yes it has actually overheated on occasion. It always seems low on coolant after it has one of its attacks but doesn't seem to have any obvious leaks. The overheating issue seems to be completely random. When it occurs the needle creeps up to a little over halfway, then suddenly, bang, flips up to max and the stop light starts flashing. It's also been known to drop back down again just as suddenly as it went up! I haven't checked the coolant for about six weeks now and I've had no problem. It's a bit weird which is why I had wondered if it might have had something to do with the ECU. Tends to happen at low speeds, so maybe it is a fan issue…

    Thanks everyone, I'll let you know how I go.
    Last edited by berlingogo; 2nd July 2014 at 08:25 AM.

  10. #10
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    You know all the bleed points? Rad, thermo housing, heater hose?

  11. #11
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    Check the bleed caps carefully. They are easily split if overtightened and will leak.
    Heater cores also leak and you can't see that, but you should smell it.

  12. #12
    Tadpole
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    Update...have tried unplugging the cooling sensor and changing the injector harness. Neither have fixed the misfire problem. Will try the injectors next...

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Demannu View Post
    If he cannot be sure whether it is the harness, injectors or ECU, find another auto electrician.
    Ditto.

  14. #14
    Tadpole
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    Changed the injectors and it seems to have fixed the problem! Thanks to everyone for your generous advice.

  15. #15
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Some ECUs (pretty sure it was the SL96 series) used to suffer when a coil pack died (went open circuit); this would cause internal damage to the ECU as it no longer had a "reference" stop point when powering a coil to saturate it. I wouldn't be surprised if the same ECU was also susceptible to an open circuit injector causing permanent grief.

  16. #16
    Tadpole
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    May be the case given the auto electrician thought that there was a problem with the ECU…No problems yet so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

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