BVH or "normal" auto?
  • Register
  • Help
Page 1 of 6 12345 ... Last
Results 1 to 25 of 127
Like Tree32Likes

Thread: BVH or "normal" auto?

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    393

    Default BVH or "normal" auto?

    Hi all,

    Came across this circa '74 DS Pallas today.

    I think I know the answer, but from this photo is this a BVH or a normal auto box? I think "normal" (unfortunately).

    BVH or "normal" auto?-imageuploadedbytapatalk1403863773.020964.jpg

    Cheers leconte


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    Advertisement
    1962 Heidelberg ID19 "Axel"
    1965 Heidelberg ID19
    half owner 1974 GS 1220 Convertisseur Break

  2. #2
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,346

    Default

    "Normal", or BVA.

    BVH has a u-shaped gate arrangement.

    Roger

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Location
    Melbourne
    Posts
    393

    Default

    Thanks Roger, I thought so. Also being 1974 on the rego label made it unlikely to be BVH. A car languishing, saveable but sad.

    I haven't spoken to an owner, it is in a parking area open to a public laneway in a Melbourne suburb. Interior very tired, some rust patches, wiring poking out here and there and tired mostly flat tyres. On a set of stands.

    cheers leconte
    1962 Heidelberg ID19 "Axel"
    1965 Heidelberg ID19
    half owner 1974 GS 1220 Convertisseur Break

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Symar/ca/usa
    Posts
    607

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leconte View Post
    Hi all,

    Came across this circa '74 DS Pallas today.

    I think I know the answer, but from this photo is this a BVH or a normal auto box? I think "normal" (unfortunately).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1403863773.020964.jpg 
Views:	501 
Size:	33.8 KB 
ID:	57670

    Cheers leconte


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Having grown up with D's I always though the BVH was the 'norm' for an automatic - and the B/W variant was the aberration...

    Aside from the gate position the real tip-off, as it were, is that a BVH has 4 forward gears - not 3.

    Steve

  5. #5
    1000+ Posts gerry freed's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2003
    Location
    Lauderdale, Tasmania
    Posts
    2,887

    Default

    That is a BW 35 box, the soul of the DS resides in the BVH.
    Think Global - Ride on Spheres

  6. #6
    BVH Roger Wilkinson's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2004
    Location
    Warrnambool
    Posts
    2,346

    Default

    To give Leconte his due, he means normal for auto boxes, not normal for Deesses.

    To amplify Gerry's point, the soul of the DS resides in the BVH gear valve.

    Those who have driven a BVH and like it will agree that BVH is an important part of the DS's character, even if not everyone thinks it is the soul.

    Those how have driven a BVH and not liked it have driven a poorly adjusted BVH.

    Those who have driven a D but not a BVH do not know what they are missing.

    Most people who know what a DS is but have not driven one probably know nothing about BVH. For them the essence of the car is probably its shape and the fact it goes up and down.

    Roger

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Posts
    317

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Most people who know what a DS is but have not driven one probably know nothing about BVH. For them the essence of the car is probably its shape and the fact it goes up and down.

    Roger
    The parallels between these cars and women is endless... :p

    Sent via the future...

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,426

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Leconte View Post
    Hi all,

    Came across this circa '74 DS Pallas today.

    I think I know the answer, but from this photo is this a BVH or a normal auto box? I think "normal" (unfortunately).

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByTapatalk1403863773.020964.jpg 
Views:	501 
Size:	33.8 KB 
ID:	57670

    Cheers leconte


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    If the car is a good one it's nothing you can't fix with a 5spd conversion .


    Via the aussiefrogs App
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,777

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    That is a BW 35 box, the soul of the DS resides in the BVH.
    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    ...

    To amplify Gerry's point, the soul of the DS resides in the BVH gear valve.

    Those who have driven a BVH and like it will agree that BVH is an important part of the DS's character, even if not everyone thinks it is the soul.

    Those how have driven a BVH and not liked it have driven a poorly adjusted BVH.

    ...
    Technically very interesting, yes, and I appreciate it's ability to creep like a proper auto but not everyone likes the BVH cars, even well adjusted examples. I'd be opting for the 5 speed myself, but that was only on offer in the last 5 years. I might even go so far as to prefer a well adjusted 4-speed Special just because I value having complete control over what's going on. Most would surely argue that the suspension concepts are of more enduring worth. Some might even suggest that a CX (C-matic even?) encapsulates the best aspects of hydropneumatic systems.

    Each to their own I guess.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    691

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    Those who have driven a D but not a BVH do not know what they are missing.
    An interesting point Roger... on particularly how your perspective can change...

    In my younger life I only ever had been exposed to and had driven manual D's. At the time I had my Dad's ID20 I was looking for a white car for my wedding and came across the perfect example - which just happened to also be for sale.

    The only fly in the ointment was it was a BVH.... bugger. What do I do...? I heard BVH was troublesome and impractical. Knew quite a few people who had converted to manual - I could probably do that...? Everything else was spot on - so I bought it.

    First drive of it I was totally and absolutely hooked... So glad now it was a BVH - and I still have it. Everyone interested in D's should at least try one once....

    Cheers,

    Mark...

  11. #11
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,534

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by gerry freed View Post
    That is a BW 35 box, the soul of the DS resides in the BVH.
    And here I was thinking the soul of a D resided in some musty old cafe down a dead-end street in Paris' 3rd arrondissement.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  12. #12
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2001
    Location
    Perth, WA, Australia
    Posts
    10,815

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Technically very interesting, yes, and I appreciate it's ability to creep like a proper auto but not everyone likes the BVH cars, even well adjusted examples. I'd be opting for the 5 speed myself, but that was only on offer in the last 5 years. I might even go so far as to prefer a well adjusted 4-speed Special just because I value having complete control over what's going on. Most would surely argue that the suspension concepts are of more enduring worth. Some might even suggest that a CX (C-matic even?) encapsulates the best aspects of hydropneumatic systems.

    Each to their own I guess.
    I was actually thinking much the same about the C-matic as I wafted along yesterday. A couple of us in Perth did back to back drives of his DS21 BVH and my C-matic a couple of years ago - chalk and cheese in some ways, yet closely related in others. I wouldn't care to choose one over the other, as both have their special charms.

    I've not driven an automatic DS or CX, but apart from not being able to do slightly sporty cruising, I'd suspect the auto would be well matched to the inherent smoothness of the car.
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1951
    Renault R8 1965
    Renault Scenic 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic 2007 (mine)
    Renault Scenic 2006 (daughter's)
    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Boyracer's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2004
    Location
    Sydney South
    Posts
    601

    Default

    Speaking as an owner of both 5 speed manual injected and carby auto saloons I have to say I love them both. There is nothing more relaxing than driving the auto carby in city traffic and there's nothing more satisfying than hurtling through the countryside in top gear in the manual car.

    I have not had a BVH. I suppose I could be tempted if a good one came onto the market.

    Realistically though, it's not likely I would buy any more sedans. Perhaps a Safari or if I'm allowed to dream, a Cabrio would be nice - I wouldn't care what gearbox was in either.


    Via the aussiefrogs App
    addo and michaelr like this.
    Cheers,
    Michael

    ____________________________

    Citroen Car Club of NSW - Member

    1974 Citroen DS23 non Pallas BW Auto/Carby with Air-conditioning [AC640 Delta Blue]
    1972 Citroen DS21 5SPD EFI Pallas [AC088 Blanc Meije]

    2012 Citroen C5 Exclusive 3.0L Auto Diesel [Noir Perla Nera]



  14. #14
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,393

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    An interesting point Roger... on particularly how your perspective can change...


    Mark...
    My perspective was changed recently too by a ride in a nicely sorted DS23 automatic. I had previously avoided them as my memories of the old BorgWarner box was not very happy in other cars.

    This 23 auto was very nice, beautifully smooth and comfortable in city/suburban traffic. I suspect I would still prefer my 5 speed 23 out of town though

    I must admit I have never driven a BVH so yet to be addicted.
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Ici.
    Posts
    2,560

    Default

    Those wires poking out is sacrilege. They should be hauled before a committee, tried and then shot. I will take the car from there. : )

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Coffs Harbour, NSW, Australia
    Posts
    619

    Default

    Citroen [ Peugeot masters ] missed the boat with the CX C-Matic by not engineering the BVH hydraulic fingertip gear lever instead of the old fashioned, clunky stick which clashes in every way with the futuristic & imaginative design of the rest of the car.
    I drove a new BW DS21 carb. in '72 & whilst it was smooth, it lacked the sparkle & brio of a properly set up BVH. The BVH can be driven gently or with satisfying extreme enthusiasm, especially the injected cars, according to your mood.
    What ever the model, the BVH is the ultimate D for me.

    Richard
    Last edited by citroenut; 29th June 2014 at 12:17 PM. Reason: missing word

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2003
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    1,304

    Default

    I have owned a C-matic and currently Automatic CX. Both suit the car brilliantly, the auto has the advantage of being higher geared. The only D I have driven has been an auto (twice). They suit the car just as well. With such a smooth ride a very smooth drive train adds to the pleasure
    Mine

    CX Prestige
    Toyota Prius

    In the family

    Xantia SX

  18. #18
    Member Pommiefrog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Location
    England
    Posts
    85

    Default

    I pick my D up in the next couple of weeks - it's currently being recommissioned after 21 years of sleep. I've always longed for a D but never driven one before (mine is a DS21 EFI BVH). I've been trying to find details of what the BVH feels like online but can't find anything.. What can I expect...? I am very excited to say the least!
    Regards,

    George
    Leicestershire, England
    1971 DS21 EFI, Pallas, BVH, Blog:http://www.mypallas.net

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Faulconbridge
    Posts
    2,488

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by Pommiefrog View Post
    I pick my D up in the next couple of weeks - it's currently being recommissioned after 21 years of sleep. I've always longed for a D but never driven one before (mine is a DS21 EFI BVH). I've been trying to find details of what the BVH feels like online but can't find anything.. What can I expect...? I am very excited to say the least!
    In my humble opinion the ultimate citroen having owned one for many years(at present out to pasture in the back yard) Interestingly the 21's four speed had a higher ratio diff. than all the others making 4th gear nearly the equivalent of 5th gear in the 5speed resulting in effortless high speed cruising (no longer allowed by plod). No clutch,just a casual finger tip to the stalk,no need to lift off the accelerator for an extremely fast down change to overtake. The 21 injection was 2hp. less than the 23 but a far better motor without o'heating problems;you will enjoy,Andy.
    Pommiefrog likes this.

  20. #20
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Pennsylvania USA
    Posts
    24

    Default

    I have been driving my bvh for about a year. Just a fantastic experience. The bvh suits the rest of the car's attributes perfectly. Smooth up shifts, precise and fast down shifts are just a couple of the good points. I have had no problems so far.
    There is lots of information on how to properly set them up on the web, or with the original adjustments service manual.
    Paul
    -------------------
    1969 DS21 Pallas BVH

    Others:
    1966 International 1000A Pickup
    1963 VW 1200

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! FedGrapes's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2011
    Location
    Perth, WA
    Posts
    833

    Default

    You guys really know how to induce some serious car coveting in man. BVH in a DS sounds like a dream!

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! JAJEA's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2013
    Location
    Essendon
    Posts
    660

    Default

    Please advise.

    I've been hearing (reading) this BVH acronym for the last ~12 months since joining AF's with no hint by anyone as to was BVH stood for.

    Nevertheless, over the last 12 months I've determined that a BVH is still a "manual" gearbox with a distict number of gears and I have assumed that it is a 4 speed gearbox as it has been around for a while with the 5 speed manual being the latest.

    So, what is a BVH Dee? It is the classic Dee with a 4 speed gearbox with no CLUTCH. The clutch is operated by an ingenious hydraulic mechanism within the Dee upon "choice of gear by the driver". It is not an "automatic" gear box.

    Have I got it right?

    John

    PS: By the by, as far as I'm concerned; a Dee is a Dee, is a Dee irrespective of its drive train. It is nothing more than a personal choice or a case of "have to" due to medical issues with the left foot and or the incompetence of the driver to operate a manual gear box.
    addo likes this.

  23. #23
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    Yes, but you're absolutely not allowed to enjoy it - regardless of nomenclature or driveline - if you have the wrong tyres fitted.

    My pet peeve is people calling Super or Spťcial models "DS".

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Faulconbridge
    Posts
    2,488

    Default

    Conventional 4 speed gearbox with higher final drive curtesy of the higher ratio diff. Clutch(conventional) hydraulically actuated when gearlever moved. If correctly set up the car will creep forward or reverse when brake pedal released so parking is easy plus very smooth off the line;nothing compares. This was the system in the original "Goddess" Andy. With the intro. of the 5speed the "joy" of being able to crank the car was lost. However the use of the crank handle was essential when setting up the gearshift.
    Last edited by alhantos; 29th June 2014 at 12:51 PM.

  25. #25
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2002
    Location
    Coolum Beach
    Posts
    1,919

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post
    Please advise.

    I've been hearing (reading) this BVH acronym for the last ~12 months since joining AF's with no hint by anyone as to was BVH stood for.
    BVH...................................Boite de Vitesse Hydraulique / Hydraulic gearbox

    BVA...................................Boite de Vitesse Automatique / Automatic gearbox

    BVM..................................Boite de Vitesse Manuelle / Manual gearbox

    LHM..................................Liquide Hydraulique Mineral

    LHV..................................Liquide Hydraulique Vegetal

    LHS..................................Liquide Hydraulique Synthetique

    LDS..................................Liquide de Direction et Suspension
    Last edited by harrisson_citroen; 2nd July 2014 at 07:01 AM.
    GreenBlood likes this.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

    DS23 IE Pallas Automatique
    C5 X7 163 Exclusive
    C3 II 2010

Page 1 of 6 12345 ... Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •