C5 Air con module - where are the previous Threads?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! JAJEA's Avatar
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    Default C5 Air con module - where are the previous Threads?

    I wanted to continue the saga but unable to locate previous threads on this on going problem with the C5 climate control module.

    Pulled the module out last year to replace the mosfet but did not do so as I had noticed two cold solder joints; so, simply re-soldered the cold joints and everything worked well until the end of our summer.

    Removed it today and replaced the mosfet with the IRF 1405N from Jaycar (is it the right one?). Upon doing so, connected it up and ran it with the unit dangling out and whilst everything worked as it should, within 3 - 4 minutes the heat sink got so hot that I actually burned/scorched my fingers and it stopped working.

    Questions arise.

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    1. Is it essential for the unit to be installed for cooling purposes before running it?
    2. How successful have others been with their rectifications?

    There seems to be a fundamental error judging by the size of 4 of the wires going into that module via 1/8" terminals as evidenced by the melting / fusing of the plugs together and the so called cold soldered joints I have to retract my previous comment on Chinese quality as I now believe it to be a design fault within the module or something else is causing the current draw outside the module unit.

    The 2 joints that I re soldered show signs of failing in addition to 2 others that definitely failed that I re soldered - too much current flow from the humongous wires going into the module's circuit board.

    Any comments on the 2 questions would be appreciated as I propose to source a new unit but I'm not too sure that it will last.

    John

    PS: The heat put out by that mosfet is amazingly high.

  2. #2
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Did you try typing, for example, "C5 mosfet" into the "search and press enter Google" box at the top of the page?
    Regards,

    Simon

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post

    PS: The heat put out by that mosfet is amazingly high.
    John,
    Did you use a heat sink paste when reassembling?

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post
    I wanted to continue the saga but unable to locate previous threads on this on going problem with the C5 climate control module.

    Pulled the module out last year to replace the mosfet but did not do so as I had noticed two cold solder joints; so, simply re-soldered the cold joints and everything worked well until the end of our summer.

    Removed it today and replaced the mosfet with the IRF 1405N from Jaycar (is it the right one?). Upon doing so, connected it up and ran it with the unit dangling out and whilst everything worked as it should, within 3 - 4 minutes the heat sink got so hot that I actually burned/scorched my fingers and it stopped working.

    Questions arise.

    1. Is it essential for the unit to be installed for cooling purposes before running it?
    2. How successful have others been with their rectifications?

    There seems to be a fundamental error judging by the size of 4 of the wires going into that module via 1/8" terminals as evidenced by the melting / fusing of the plugs together and the so called cold soldered joints I have to retract my previous comment on Chinese quality as I now believe it to be a design fault within the module or something else is causing the current draw outside the module unit.

    The 2 joints that I re soldered show signs of failing in addition to 2 others that definitely failed that I re soldered - too much current flow from the humongous wires going into the module's circuit board.

    Any comments on the 2 questions would be appreciated as I propose to source a new unit but I'm not too sure that it will last.

    John

    PS: The heat put out by that mosfet is amazingly high.
    I tried to find that thread too with no luck.
    Like you I replaced the Mosfet in January and was surprised at the heatsink temperature after fitting it to the vehicle and firing up. (I hope 'firing' is not indicative of any outcome.) I used thermal grease for the assembly. The unit is seriously under spec. IMHO and if there was an updated module I'd be fitting it as a replacement.

    I can't answer your first question but apart from concerns about how hot it runs it's been running OK.

    SF

  5. #5
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post
    I wanted to continue the saga but unable to locate previous threads on this on going problem with the C5 climate control module.

    John
    Quote Originally Posted by ScotFrog View Post
    I tried to find that thread too with no luck.

    SF
    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Did you try typing, for example, "C5 mosfet" into the "search and press enter Google" box at the top of the page?
    Thanks Simon,
    Seems many a have not discovered the AF Google search - forget the 'Forum Search' in the drop down menu it's useless.

    Top right hand corner 'Google Search' enter your search detail and press enter on your keyboard, it works. . .



    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails C5 Air con module - where are the previous Threads?-af-google-search.jpg  
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! JAJEA's Avatar
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    Sorry for the late response but I had internet / computer problems.

    As for trying to find it, I was aiming to keep the Thread alive as it obviously is a problem with the C5 AC module. Nevertheless, finding it is not really important.

    The unit that I worked on last year was the $400 unit (supply and install) replaced by Zagame not long before they gave / lost the Citroen dealership (no loss as far as I'm concerned).

    Attachment 56611Attachment 56612Attachment 56613Attachment 56614

    In the first photo, the 1/8" terminal in each plug slot are obviously beyond their current carrying capacity as there signs of them being "cooked" as further evidenced by the melting of the plastic plugs. On the first occasion of removal, I had to demolish the 2 terminal plug as it was welded to the base and on this occasion the multi terminal plug was also welded to the base but at the expense of the retaining clip I managed to separate (the demolished 2 pin plug is dispensed with and the two 1/8"female terminals are plugged directly to the circuit board male terminals).

    The 2nd photo shows the resoldered joints within the multiterminal plug which appeared to be cold joints but where not in that state last year and on the right are the 2 previous resoldered joints that show signs of over heating as they are no longer sparkling.

    Third and 4th photos are of the original and installed new mosfet. Plenty of thermal paste that cost and arm and a leg as it was claimed to be (almost) neat silver.

    The statement of how hot the mosfet heat sink got has to be experienced - upon scorching my finger, I put a little bit of saliva on it and I heard it sizzle to nothing - dangerously hot I thought. Looked around/ tried to smell burning wires - nothing; checked fuses as I expected one of them to had blown no.

    So, I now believe that the module installed does have cooling airflow over it.

    As for the other original questions, I would appreciate comments as to how permanent / how successful others were with their repairs?

    Regards,

    John

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post
    Sorry for the late response but I had internet / computer problems.

    As for trying to find it, I was aiming to keep the Thread alive as it obviously is a problem with the C5 AC module. Nevertheless, finding it is not really important.

    The unit that I worked on last year was the $400 unit (supply and install) replaced by Zagame not long before they gave / lost the Citroen dealership (no loss as far as I'm concerned).

    Attachment 56611Attachment 56612Attachment 56613Attachment 56614

    In the first photo, the 1/8" terminal in each plug slot are obviously beyond their current carrying capacity as there signs of them being "cooked" as further evidenced by the melting of the plastic plugs. On the first occasion of removal, I had to demolish the 2 terminal plug as it was welded to the base and on this occasion the multi terminal plug was also welded to the base but at the expense of the retaining clip I managed to separate (the demolished 2 pin plug is dispensed with and the two 1/8"female terminals are plugged directly to the circuit board male terminals).

    The 2nd photo shows the resoldered joints within the multiterminal plug which appeared to be cold joints but where not in that state last year and on the right are the 2 previous resoldered joints that show signs of over heating as they are no longer sparkling.

    Third and 4th photos are of the original and installed new mosfet. Plenty of thermal paste that cost and arm and a leg as it was claimed to be (almost) neat silver.

    The statement of how hot the mosfet heat sink got has to be experienced - upon scorching my finger, I put a little bit of saliva on it and I heard it sizzle to nothing - dangerously hot I thought. Looked around/ tried to smell burning wires - nothing; checked fuses as I expected one of them to had blown no.

    So, I now believe that the module installed does have cooling airflow over it.

    As for the other original questions, I would appreciate comments as to how permanent / how successful others were with their repairs?

    Regards,

    John
    Repaired in January... still going strong.

    SF

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger
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    Yes, the module is installed with the finned heatsink inside the heater box and so it is in the air stream.

    You can easily find your old thread just by looking through your previous posts in your profile. This may be the easiest way for you, but it would be more difficult for someone with a very high post count. It might be sensible to merge this thread into it when you locate it.

  9. #9
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    Hi there, Does the heat sink surface get somewhere near as hot as the mosfet? if not the gunk you use may not be doing the job. I use silicone heat transfer compound, only a few dollars for a mini tube. Make sure the surfaces are clean and do not be afraid to use plenty.
    I had similar problems a few years ago with burnt wiring etc. Never replaced the mosfet just re-gunked and it's been fine ever since and the wiring runs warm only.
    This system draws a lot of amps, don't know what year model you're talking about but I can't see them changing the system generally speaking.
    So, on the under bonnet fuse box the 2 heavy heater wires are common connected, with the male terminals being soldered together inside the fuse box. This solder job on mine had melted, so I reshaped a soldering iron like a probe and went down into the box to resolder. Melted a bit of plastic but no damage to the Molex connector flange. The female, wire end, terminals are heavy brass to carry the high amps and the resulting generated heat.

    Now the 2 heavy heater wires, go underneath the dash where they are soldered together during the loom manufacture, before branching onto the heater controller. What it means is that we have 2 separate wires with a common connection, which join into 1 under the dash before branching into 2 again to power up the controller. Supposedly because of heavy current draw with full fan I guess, although if one connector fails to make contact at the fuse box end, the same current can be carried through the remaining single wire to the soldered joint to supply the 2 controller wires. This generates a great amount of heat in the wiring as the heater demands more amps than can be supplied through a single wire.

    Before replacing the controller, I would test the mosfet transfer temperature, check the fuse box connections and soldering, [these must be good and clean and tight fitting, no sloppy connection will do]. I had to cut and lengthen the heater wiring on mine because the melting/burning situation was so bad. I've had no trouble since and I'm still using the original controller and its mosfet.

    Hope that helps. Cheers Tony.

  10. #10
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    BYe the bye, I take it you know the price of these controllers has come down considerably. $47AU was the latest price I've seen on Flea bay. Of course postage may have been $125AU, didn't look. Cheers.

  11. #11
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    You do not generally have this issue with the facelifted cars. Nor do you tend to encounter the flap motor problem, fixed by fitting a motor with a longer drive peg. These are essentially issues with the original model. Cutting away part of the connector and soldering the heavy wires to the module board is often the pragmatic repair method.

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  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! JAJEA's Avatar
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    Thanks all.

    Sorry but I do not have the expertise of

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! JAJEA's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post
    Thanks all.

    Sorry but I do not have the expertise of
    Sorry, it went on its own - having computer problems - so, I'll call it quits for the night before [email protected]#$%%$#@@ as it's very frustrating.

    John

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! JAJEA's Avatar
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    Trying again.

    Thanks all. (And Shanadoo, 2 controllers are on their way. One can put up with no AC during summer but safety is paramount in Melbourne's winter - you can't do without the demister. I also believe that my problems are within the module end. Time will tell when the new controllers arrive and I'll contact you via a PM if you don't mind as I've no idea where these wires are or how to access them if I need to upon installing the new controller.)

    There are a number of threads on the subject of the C5 fan not working that relate to the Climate Control Module CT00006441L2.

    I believe that these threads should be combined but I do not have the expertise to do that notwithstanding that I wanted to provide a follow up on my repairs that did not require the changing of the mosfet in the first instance and on reflection I do not believe that I should have changed it this time with the cold solder joints in the 2 pin plug that were not there last time.

    Nevertheless, I changed it this time on the belief that the smaller mosfet would not required as much power to do its job - how wrong was I? And running the climate control out of the unit was simply on reflection a stupid thing to do when one considers the magnitude of the heat sink for the mosfet and the heat build up that I was aware existed. (By the way, there is no need of copius quantities of thermal paste between mosfet and heat sink - once you clip it against the heat sink the paste oozes out everywhere. You need 2 clean metal surfaces to dissipate the heat and a smear of the thermal paste to ensure 100% surface contact. I followed advice to apply it liberally but on clipping it in place it went everywhere. )

    The issue is as David S correctly stated in a number of posts, the 4 heavy wires into the module transfer current via 1/8" terminals. The 1/8" terminals are simply too small and David S's suggestion of soldering the wires direct to the circuit board is the key to achieve a permanent repair. In doing so (connecting direct to circuit board) heavier individual terminal can be utilized between module and C5's wiring loom.

    Regards,

    John

    PS: Did the photos in my post No. 6 attach / appear (they are not available to me?!)

    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post
    Sorry, it went on its own - having computer problems - so, I'll call it quits for the night before [email protected]#$%%$#@@ as it's very frustrating.

    John

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post
    Trying again.

    ...

    PS: Did the photos in my post No. 6 attach / appear (they are not available to me?!)
    No photos .

    The following appears after the third para:

    Attachment 56611Attachment 56612Attachment 56613Attachment 56614

    If you click on it, you get the following:

    "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"

    Cheers

    Alec

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger! JAJEA's Avatar
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    Thanks Alec, that's what I got.

    The 4 photos referenced were: However they are not out of seqence



    C5 Air con module - where are the previous Threads?-img_4400.jpg C5 Air con module - where are the previous Threads?-img_4409.jpgC5 Air con module - where are the previous Threads?-img_4427.jpg]C5 Air con module - where are the previous Threads?-img_4428.jpg

    Regards,

    John

    Quote Originally Posted by Armidillo View Post
    No photos .

    The following appears after the third para:

    Attachment 56611Attachment 56612Attachment 56613Attachment 56614

    If you click on it, you get the following:

    "Invalid Attachment specified. If you followed a valid link, please notify the administrator"

    Cheers

    Alec

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! JAJEA's Avatar
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    Update.
    New module(s) arrived today from Poland (<$AUD50 delivered) from a eBay seller (dis_autoparts) that I have previous used before for Audi parts.

    It works! For how long time will tell! Nevertheless hope I do not need the spare.

    [I had to make a slight modification to the 6 terminal green plug with the removal of one of the green tabs as it did not line up with the plug in the New Module- minor mod]

    Regards,

    John

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