DS23 Airconditioning Re-installation 2014
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    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Default DS23 Airconditioning Re-installation 2014

    As Hotrodelectric mentioned , let's start a new thread on the subject.

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    My first question -as my memory fails- is :

    Where was the pulley that runs the compressor installed ? On the hydraulic pump or on the water pump?
    The reason I ask is because mine has been removed and replaced with a standard 2 belt one. However everything else is still there.


    2nd question: Has anyone such a pulley (3 grooves), and are they willing to part with it - money involved of course-
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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    The water pump, French Dude. IIRC there should also be an idler pulley. Your system is what- an AutoClima?

    Unfortunately I don't think it's a matter of simply replacing the 2-groove pulley with a 3-groove pulley. I'm not positive, but as I understand it the shaft is longer and the nose is heavier with a different bearing.
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    Yes Bill, Autoclima.

    I asked about the pulley because as I was looking around the usual resellers , I kept finding not water pumps, but hydraulic pumps with 3 grooves. What would be the point of a hydraulic pump with 3 grooves?
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    Yes Bill, Autoclima.

    I asked about the pulley because as I was looking around the usual resellers , I kept finding not water pumps, but hydraulic pumps with 3 grooves. What would be the point of a hydraulic pump with 3 grooves?
    Your Autoclima wil run off a 3 pulley waterpump (no idler) 3 pulley pumps hard to find!

    The 3 pulley hydraulic pump is used on all BVH cars. . . but you knew that right?

    Cheers
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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    Yes Bill, Autoclima.

    I asked about the pulley because as I was looking around the usual resellers , I kept finding not water pumps, but hydraulic pumps with 3 grooves. What would be the point of a hydraulic pump with 3 grooves?
    I don't know the exact belt route, but it might be water pump-hydraulic pump-idler-A/C compressor. Is your hydraulic pump 3-groove? When that compressor kicks on, that is one hell of a shock load on those pulleys, even on the systems changed out to a Sanden compressor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    . . . but you knew that right?

    Cheers
    Chris
    My policy is as follows: if I make a complete fool of myself at the start of the discussion, things can only improve from then on...

    Chris, actually I hadn't notice that BVH cars had three pulleys.

    Back to the 3 pulleys on the water pump: No other way to re-route the belts any other way know to man?
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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    http://bk23.free.fr/MR/583-4_electri...n_allumage.pdf

    I don't know if you have this, Phil but it might be worth your while. You're a native French speaker, so it's easier for you to read than me. It takes a while to download. Aircon is towards the end. It's the factory console system, but it looks like the mechanical portion is nearly identical to the port-installed units.

    As an aside, check out the root site bk23.free.fr if you haven't already. Metric ass ton load of info there.
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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Your Autoclima wil run off a 3 pulley waterpump (no idler) 3 pulley pumps hard to find!

    The 3 pulley hydraulic pump is used on all BVH cars. . . but you knew that right?

    Cheers
    Chris
    AHA!! Gotcha! His car is an automatique. Remember we went through all that trying to get his starter working?

    That third groove on the HP then might be for the centrifugal regulator?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    AHA!! Gotcha! His car is an automatique. Remember we went through all that trying to get his starter working?

    That third groove on the HP then might be for the centrifugal regulator?
    Ummm, Correct Phil's car is an Auto, it would run a 2 pulley hydraulic pump - and yes the third pulley on a BVH is to run the centrifugal regulator. . . therefore Phil is still looking for a 3 pulley waterpump.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    As Hotrodelectric mentioned , let's start a new thread on the subject.

    My first question -as my memory fails- is :

    Where was the pulley that runs the compressor installed ? On the hydraulic pump or on the water pump?
    The reason I ask is because mine has been removed and replaced with a standard 2 belt one. However everything else is still there.


    2nd question: Has anyone such a pulley (3 grooves), and are they willing to part with it - money involved of course-
    I know space is very tight and originally can be important.

    However is there any hope of squeezing in a poly V pulley bolted to the original? Poly V drive to compressors are very kind to the engine and the compressor alike. Especially if the belt is automatically spring tensioned.

    Plus it usually easier to design a mount drive kit to get a good wrap on the drive pulleys.

    Not to discount the ready supply of poly v drive compressors available at good prices. And the multitude of donor vehicles for tensioners and pulleys.

    I'm just throwing ideas around.

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Wher to buy a DS water pump with airconditioning

    I thought there was a thread dedicated to this very item.
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    Well the CX has a 4 groove water pump pulley. The 180 degree wrap on both ends of the drive to the A/C compressor means it very rarely slips. No need to look for any other routing of the belts, it would be foolish to try. From what I have seen the A/C compressor is on the other side of the engine to the camshaft, so at least the load on the water pump is a bit lower than than the CX as it has the compressor on the same side as the camshaft on automatique cars at least. Just count on reconditioning the water pump every 100k km.
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    Hey Greg, reconditioning every 100000 kms would not be a problem. What is proving to be a problem though is finding a 3 grooves pulley!
    Come on guys, someone must have one in the shed they can spare, somewhere......
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    well, looks like I may have to shelf the plan to re-install the aircon, due to the fact that the 3 grooves pulley is not obtainable. or rather it is ......at prices starting around $400.

    Like my son used to say: "I'm silly but I'm not stupid!"
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    Patience.. set up a automatic search on e-bay, you'll get notified if you search finds anything, sure it will pick up other stuff as well but I have found few items that way with minimal effort.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    well, looks like I may have to shelf the plan to re-install the aircon, due to the fact that the 3 grooves pulley is not obtainable. or rather it is ......at prices starting around $400.

    Like my son used to say: "I'm silly but I'm not stupid!"
    There is an option.

    When I was working with old projection equipment breaking a drive pulley whilst reconditioning was almost an occupation hazard.

    The company I worked for had a simple formula for repair- cast up another and re-machine.

    Generally the old, broken pulley was held together by any method possible. From pins to araldite. Then the pulley was coated in dippable/brushable plastic film to increase the diameter to allow for machining.

    After that a two piece core box was made and the the pulley packed in sand.

    Split the box take out the pulley.

    Close the box send off to be cast.

    Casting is cheap as anything but machining costs. Making a core box and increasing the pulley diameter is within many peoples skills.

    Gun metal is good casting material and free machining.

    If you get an old broken pulley and have a fitter turner mate it's another option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by FIVEDOOR View Post
    Patience.. set up a automatic search on e-bay
    Good idea, although I didn't know about this option. I guess it is in "My Ebay" is it?. I'm off to try it now.
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    I have one that would require a bearing replacement


    Via the aussiefrogs App

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    Thanks for letting me know . PM sent.
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    I have just picked up an old Autoclima system for my DS locally in Melb. It is in "fair" condition in that there is a crack in the ABS, the vents are missing as are the fan and temp knobs, plus there are some issues with tinware.

    The inner front condensers seem to be OK, but one of the Ducellier fans has had a hiding and has a band of Ligarex wrapped around it and the other has bare wires extending from it and no connectors. They both however run, so repairs can be carried out. Not sure if these fans can still be purchased anywhere??

    There is some tinware (top plate) missing from one of the condenser "boxes" but that should also be able to be formed out of some 1mm sheet.

    I don'y have the fluted tinware to enable venting of the air behind the condensers, so if anyone has a set of these, happy top exchange some $'s, nor do I have the bumpers with the cutouts & mesh. Again happy to pay for some if anyone has a spare set.

    A 3 pulley water pump was supplied with it, but that will require refurbishing, so the tips above regarding removal of the pulley, bearing sizes etc are very welcome


    Re the Autoclima bits, as a long shot, does anyone know if the two knobs and passenger vents are still available as spare parts?

    Garry

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garryds23 View Post
    Re the Autoclima bits, as a long shot, does anyone know if the two knobs and passenger vents are still available as spare parts?

    Garry
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    Vents - member misterd has used these with small modification to allow rotation in the Autoclima dash.
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    Speedy Air have small condenser units that should fit in the front valance on a D, you would need measurements from your existing units to confirm. A worthwhile upgrade. They also have an evaporator unit that looks like it would fit straight into the rear of the Autoclima dash opening with a small modification to bring the control units up to the control panel.
    Condensers: Speedy Air Spares

    If you have the old York compressor ditch it, replace with a modern unit.

    You can get lucky, but vented bumpers will be a challenge

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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    Thx Chris. Have ordered the louvers and knobs. Will be wrestling with the water-pump pulley this week to get it off without damage and will check out the bearings etc.

    Have the lower gearbox bracket for the compressor but not the one that sits vertically above it or the 2 x stays that hold it in place or the special 9mm bolt?. So will have to find someone in Melb that has one so I can have a peek at what is required.

    Re the bumpers, I think I will grab a pattern from a car as well and have mine cut out and mesh installed as they are off the car at present. So if you know of anyone with a nice steady hand who could do this that would be appreciated.

    Will check out the under dash condenser unit you mentioned as well

    As an aside, checking the electrics yesterday I found that the ballast on the side of the coil has the small lug snapped off the bottom, so am in search of a new coil ballast.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Garryds23 View Post
    Re the bumpers, I think I will grab a pattern from a car as well and have mine cut out and mesh installed as they are off the car at present. So if you know of anyone with a nice steady hand who could do this that would be appreciated.
    This may help with the bumper cutouts. . .



    Or you could leave your bumpers intact, ditch the two condensers in the front valance and go fo a Sanden condenser in front of the radiator. This is my car, in my experience there has been no adverse engine cooling issues and the AC was icy cold.





    Cheers
    Chris
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails DS23  Airconditioning Re-installation 2014-ds-ac-bumper.jpg   DS23  Airconditioning Re-installation 2014-ac-sanden-condenser2.jpg   DS23  Airconditioning Re-installation 2014-ac-sanden-condenser.jpg  
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    I have pressed off the 3 groove pulley on my old water pump and also the 2 groove pulley from a new one I sourced from Europe. Unfortunately this one did not survive.

    I have also noticed that the new pumps that are now available have a much thicker shaft. 13mm vs 11mm.

    Once I have both apart I will measure and provide details on the bearings and spacers

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