Citroen C4 - Thoughts?
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    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Default Citroen C4 - Thoughts?

    Hi all,

    So the C3 met a sad demise last week with a wayward driver sending it to French car heaven. Considering the accident, the C3 is a pretty strong little car!

    My sister, in her infinite wisdom (or lack thereof) has her heart set on a C4 Automatic of sorts. I don't really know a whole lot about them, besides spec wise they seem to make the grade on safety kit!

    What are the common issues with them? We're used to PSA running costs...

    Is the gearbox a bit better in the C4 as they are a later model car - you'd hope that PSA had "improved" the AL4 somewhat over the years...

    Budget is around 11k - which can get a low KM example!

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    Any other suggestions for that price point?
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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Avoid the 1.6 (NFU) if possible, go for the 2 litre. She will notice the extra fuel costs, and the extra hassle in parking compared to a C3.

    I would haggle hard and be willing to travel, presuming you are assisting her - not your Dad.

    You know my thoughts on AL4s, anyhow.

  3. #3
    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Why not the 1.6L? 80kw mated to a fairly heavy car isn't going to set the world on fire...

    Anything is going to be better than the 55kw C3!
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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I don't like it's ECU.

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    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    I don't like it's ECU.
    I suggested a 2003 Magna. She wasn't impressed.
    2005 Renault Clio 182 Cup

    2011 Renault Megane 250 Cup Trophee - Sold

    1997 Peugeot 406 2.0 Manual - On Loan

    2004 Citroen C3 1.4 80th Anniversary (RIP)

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I'd suggest a late 156 with Sillyspeed.

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    C4 HDi with the EGS gearbox is the pick of the first C4
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    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    C4 HDi with the EGS gearbox is the pick of the first C4
    For the fact the car is being run around the city, I don't think a diesel would really suit...

    Also, I have visions of petrol being put in the tank.
    2005 Renault Clio 182 Cup

    2011 Renault Megane 250 Cup Trophee - Sold

    1997 Peugeot 406 2.0 Manual - On Loan

    2004 Citroen C3 1.4 80th Anniversary (RIP)

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    Fellow Frogger!
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    My mum has a 1.6 auto. Been fairly good except for the solenoid issues with the AL4 and a replacement starter at 60,000km (common issue on the 1.6 as the brushes wear prematurely). My brother had a c4 2.0 auto previously. In all honesty, mum's 1.6 felt peppier around town - it seems to have better low down torque than the 2.0. It's higher in the rev range before the 2.0 provided a difference.

    Usual AL4 checks should apply - check if the upgraded solenoids have been done as it's a $1k job.

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    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    I'm really happy with my 2007 C4 2L auto. I renewed the gearbox oil with last service as a pre-caution yet mechanic said the gearbox has been improved over previous versions. Handling is great for touring. Pick up around city better than most 2L I've driven. Great value second hand. Alfa's & VW's have had more gearbox issues than Citroen models & a friend (lady driver) has a Falcon XR6 turbo that required a complete (5speed auto) gearbox replacement at 80K ($5k) then a/c evaporator at 85k ($2k) at a cost more than car really worth if traded. Manuals best in any brand it seems
    Citroen C5 II manual '05; C4 Exculsive '07; Citroen CX2200 Pallas '76; CX2400 C-matic Pallas '78

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Urrggh.... If she must have something that feels like it has the axles welded to the body as suspension ..... 2.0 HDI 6spd auto is the only way to go. I wouldn't look at a al$ 4spd slugomatic for any reason, regardless of cost myself. You wouldnt' dream of buying a wheezy thirsty petrol engine unless it was so cheap you couldn't turn it down.

    The EGS gearbox is connected to the 1.6 HDi ... which is a great combo if you remember it's actually a manual, so should be and always will be slightly jerky to drive.......... How do you know if the 1.6 hasn't missed oil changes and is sludged up internally though. They sound a bit of a worry unless you know the owner of the car, and know there someone that wouldn't skimp on oil changes.

    My pick would definitely to a 2litre HDi, with a 6spd manual ..................... bolted into a X7+ C5 (they never sold them here though ).

    Here's a winner

    http://www.carsales.com.au/private/d.../?Cr=0&sdmvc=1

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by STALLED View Post
    For the fact the car is being run around the city, I don't think a diesel would really suit...

    Also, I have visions of petrol being put in the tank.
    Don't tell all of Europe and UK that .... that sit in heavy traffic all day in these exact cars then .... The diesels would be dieing by the million if this was a problem

    the modern deisels are excellent in traffic and will likely almost halve your fuel usage over the wheezy petrol engine (especiall short urban runs with lots of cold starts).
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    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    There are enough diesels with problems from short journey usage. Plus they're not going to be appreciably more economical on the sort of trips made by Little Stalled.

    People have been brainwashed now into believing that diesel is better no matter what. Reality is, for the age of car being considered, there was a good splash of technology prematurely brought to the marketplace and consumers have been left to carry the cost of running revisions.

    Again, too, I return to the point made so well by what actually happened. Did the C3 die from engine failure? No. Did it die from problems with the AL4? No. Did it die from rust? No. It died like most cars here, from a strong repair cost vs market value. It quite possibly could have got away with NEVER being serviced.

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    You should be able to find a low mileage late first series model (not the current one) for the money with the naturally aspirated petrol EP6C motor, which isn't sluggish, although an AL4 auto box doesn't make it a sports car. Notwithstanding Shane, who hopes for hydraulics on everything, they aren't bone shakers at all, by comparison with other makes. The chain and other teething problems were addressed in the later cars with these motors.

    If you can scrounge the extra dosh get one of the current B7 models - these are very nice cars to drive, and haven't been selling well (with no advertising, it's no wonder), so haggling might be in order. Pre-Syme Darby imports have more variants.

  15. #15
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    There are enough diesels with problems from short journey usage. Plus they're not going to be appreciably more economical on the sort of trips made by Little Stalled.

    People have been brainwashed now into believing that diesel is better no matter what. Reality is, for the age of car being considered, there was a good splash of technology prematurely brought to the marketplace and consumers have been left to carry the cost of running revisions.

    Again, too, I return to the point made so well by what actually happened. Did the C3 die from engine failure? No. Did it die from problems with the AL4? No. Did it die from rust? No. It died like most cars here, from a strong repair cost vs market value. It quite possibly could have got away with NEVER being serviced.
    Huh ?? The petrol motors fuel economy is heavily impacted by cold starts and short trips. I've also never heard of any issues due to short trips (especially if you get one without the particle filter) This is where diesels excel. I used to own a 1.6HDi EGS ... good little car, but gee's .... concrete like suspension, grabby god awful brakes and HUGE tire roar at speed. The EGS 6spd automated manual I thought was a ripper (only thing way better would be a proper 6spd manual) as was the little diesel. I've driven a few AL4 cars of varying vintages and types. And the only thing I thought they had in common is they all sucked. But that's just my opinion, some people seem to love them (even people that have spend a fortune fixing them again and again).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Worst case for the 1.6HDi EGS in the city would be 6.5l/100km. I know one guy who has a long term average of 4.9 though. Petrol auto would be lucky to beat 9. Yes you have to get taught a bit by the EGS on how to drive it but that is half the fun. There is that other perfect city car that shall not be mentioned here, rock hard suspension but 4.1l/100 since birth. You have to learn on that one too.
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    No injury I gather? Maybe, another C3 would do the job? Or a 1.6 petrol Pluriel with Sensualdrive?

    If you want an old series C4 with a full auto, you get a choice of 1.6 (two types) or 2.0 petrol and AL4 OR, the impressive 2.0HDi with AM6 6 speed auto. the 1.6HDi was sold here with either a regular manual and no particle filter OR as the EGS, which is really an automated manual which people either love or hate. They all offer safety and comfort, but each have weaknesses. If I wanted a petrol C4, I'd look for a late 2.0L.

    Any C4 with an AL4 gearbox will have the 'upgraded' electrovalves/solenoids as the old type had been replaced before C4 arrived. In general, the later the AL4, the better as the factory did improve them over time. Very late cars

    Many very short runs are not ideal for any diesel with a particle filter. So, petrol may be better for inner-city only use compared to a small diesel fitted with a particle filter. Mixed driving around the burbs of a larger city or in regional areas suit a car with a particle filter. Diesel will give excellent fuel economy on fast roads, but you wouldn't count on it in heavy inner-city traffic. The fuel cost savings can be quickly eroded if you inadvertently fill a diesel with petrol and have to pay to fix that or you own the car when it needs the particle filter additive refilled.
    Last edited by David S; 8th May 2014 at 01:45 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! James504's Avatar
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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    They're still using the AL4 - is fitted to current 208 and C3!! How old is it now...?

    Meganes are way better value if you're willing to go for another AL4/DPO.
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    Default Citroen C4 - Thoughts?

    My C4 is so quiet & rides far better & quieter than our Mazda 3 mPS. If the C4 had the Mazda performance & 6 speed manual that would be an awesome car. VTS anyone? Anyway the next
    car I would by is a Fiat 500 pop manual. They even do a robotised manual auto. All one needs for city commuting with a comfy ride. The C4 is a pretty car though. Finally the C5 X7 looks handsome after the chubby C5's prior. (Even the C6 looks odd IMO). The Xantia looked so nice in shape yet seems to disappear in a crowd so at least 1st C5 stood out. The DS line is exactly what Citroen required to make up for loosing the hydraulics. Maybe you could afford a DS3 for similar money now they have been around for a while? The base model even rides very well.
    Last edited by Jinandfonic; 8th May 2014 at 11:51 PM.
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    Sans Pond. STALLED's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    No injury I gather? Maybe, another C3 would do the job? Or a 1.6 petrol Pluriel with Sensualdrive?
    Nope - she doesn't want another C3! Feels like a change. She's fine - more shaken up from the incident and p*ssed off that she doesn't have a car for the time being through no fault of her own!

    Quote Originally Posted by James504 View Post
    Shouldaboughtahonda
    Ironically, that was the car which smacked in to her...

    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    They're still using the AL4 - is fitted to current 208 and C3!! How old is it now...?

    Meganes are way better value if you're willing to go for another AL4/DPO.
    No - apparently the Megane interior "looks like crap"...

    Not my words.

    There's a couple of Peugeot 207s doing the rounds at the moment at a decent price point. The irony is, I think my sister is more of a Citroenhead than me...
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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I nearly got cleaned up in the same way yesterday. Same background of driver (visually) in a Forrie.

    Sister doesn't want a Brocksport 850 wagon?

  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Is she up for a holiday to Ballarat........ I'd be heading straight here if I needed a car yesterday and had nothing to drive.

    01 Renault Scenic Only 67K'S $3 500 With RWC Rego Very Clean Goes Very Well in Ballarat, VIC | eBay

    Don't worry, it has a proper gearbox so you don't have the AL$ issues either.

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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    I know someone selling a nice blue C2 VTR...
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    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    207 is a good bet here I reckon. The wagons are cool. I believe you need to watch those early BMW/Mini/PSA 1.6 motors for timing chain issues.

    Any AL4/DPO I'd try to get with well under 50Kkms on them, and get them on an early regime of fresh juice...
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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