DS Voltage Regulators
  • Help
Page 1 of 2 12 Last
Results 1 to 25 of 27
Like Tree2Likes

Thread: DS Voltage Regulators

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    719

    Default DS Voltage Regulators

    Hi all,A lot has been written about replacement of the voltage reg with a modern solid state item - I'm just wondering if there is a modern replacement which can be fitted inside the existing case - I'd like the original look if at all possible.Many thanks in advance,Mark....

    Advertisement

  2. #2
    Tadpole
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    New Zealand
    Posts
    17

    Default

    Mark,

    I believe that one from a Ford Falcon should fit under that Ducellier cover. (Not sure which series sorry)

    I'm sure more helpful advice will follow.

    Cheers

  3. #3
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2001
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    8,257

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DSpallas View Post
    Mark,

    I believe that one from a Ford Falcon should fit under that Ducellier cover. (Not sure which series sorry)

    I'm sure more helpful advice will follow.

    Cheers
    Link to the Ford regulator conversion. . .
    http://citroen-sm.org/wiki/images/9/90/Regulator.pdf

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  4. #4
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    You'll find even those instructions are out of date as you look at the pictures. Once you open the can, the newest regulators are quite small, about 1/2 the size of the one Mark used. Even so, they still wire up the same. The real wrinkle is you'll also find they're riveted to the base. You don't cut that rivet off, because that's the ground for the regulator. What I've done is cut the base down with the regulator still attached, then firmly screwed that base to the Ducellier base like a bracket. A nice ground wire from that screw to battery ground is a good idea.

    Just about anything late '70's- early '90's Ford will do the trick. It doesn't need to regulate anything bigger than 50 amps.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    SOUTH MORANG
    Posts
    793

    Default

    Is there anything wrong with older design? I opened inside I just saw thick coils only and they look robust. I don`t like semiconductors....
    1961 Citroen ID19(2010~), Holden Frontera(R.I.P 2002-2014), Honda Accord EURO(2006~)

  6. #6
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    Is there anything wrong with older design? I opened inside I just saw thick coils only and they look robust. I don`t like semiconductors....
    Like anything else electro-mechanical they wear, points get worn, settings don't stay constant. The big problem with the original regulators is lights will start flickering. What you don't realize is that also means that your charging circuit isn't keeping up with requirements when the lights are on. With EFI, since the system so juuuuuuuuust barely covers the system, that could mean drivability problems. In addition, you run a pretty good risk of overcharging. The Ford electronic regulator pretty much kills those problems.

    If the stock regulator doesn't exhibit problems, you have no real reason to replace it. The Ford regulator option exists as a way to get around a replacement problem.

    I would suggest reading Chris' link- it's a very good one:
    Link to the Ford regulator conversion. . .
    Last edited by Hotrodelectric; 22nd April 2014 at 10:37 AM. Reason: add the link
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  7. #7
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2000
    Location
    Ballarat,Vic,Aust.
    Posts
    16,748

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    Is there anything wrong with older design? I opened inside I just saw thick coils only and they look robust. I don`t like semiconductors....
    Yours is a really early car with a generator. I'd suggest the regulator should be fine for an old generator clad car with barely any electrical loads. Just throw a voltmeter on there. If it's charging at about 14volts your fine.

    The later cars with higher amperage alternators I'm lazy, I'd throw it all away and fit a modern internally regulated/rectified alternator and get rid of some of that rats nest of wiring.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Elphinstone Victoria
    Posts
    537

    Default

    The DS I got recently has a rat's nest of wiring involving the alternator, regulator, a DIY thingy with substantial heat sink and a relay, all knotted together into an indecipherable tangle. Oh and a toggle switch which doesn't seem to do anything. There are also a group of 3 LEDs (red,green,orange) let into the multi function warning gauge on the dashboard.
    It all seems to work except that when the engine is switched off there is a minor discharge which over time flattens the battery.
    I intend to take it back to a clean system and the thought of nesting a Ford regulator inside the Cit's regulator housing is very appealing.
    Can anyone (HRE?) point me in the direction of the appropriate wiring diagram which can give me a road map of what I need to do and with a few pointers of the difficulties I am liable to face? The car is a 1973 D-Special, manual carby model with AutoClma air conditioning.

    SF

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Location
    SOUTH MORANG
    Posts
    793

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Yours is a really early car with a generator. I'd suggest the regulator should be fine for an old generator clad car with barely any electrical loads. Just throw a voltmeter on there. If it's charging at about 14volts your fine.

    The later cars with higher amperage alternators I'm lazy, I'd throw it all away and fit a modern internally regulated/rectified alternator and get rid of some of that rats nest of wiring.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    I just remember that I have installed THE ENGINE WATCHDOG earlier and it is no longer operational could be unstable voltage might have killed it?
    1961 Citroen ID19(2010~), Holden Frontera(R.I.P 2002-2014), Honda Accord EURO(2006~)

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    I just remember that I have installed THE ENGINE WATCHDOG earlier and it is no longer operational could be unstable voltage might have killed it?
    Here is an entirely solid state dynamo regulator.

    Dynamo Current and Voltage Regulator

    A quick check of the circuit diagram suggests that it will work.

    The only modification I would make is put a relay in series with the battery side of output mosfet the disconnect the dynamo from the battery when the ignition is turned off. Belt and braces in case of meltdown. Some output fusing on the dynamo would be a good idea too.

    Perhaps an AFer could do some art work and make up a circuit board and get together a kit of bits as DIY project?

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    719

    Default

    Many thanks to you all for your responses - it's much appreciated...

    The situation is that the regulator is "regulating" but the circuit which operates the warning light is not. Removing the cover from the unit the light can be manually extinguished by pressing on the electromagnetic contact, but I have 13.6v on the multimeter. I tried adjusting it but I suspect the coil has gone open circuit.

    This means even if I fit an electronic regulator the light circuit would also need to be sorted as well.

    I agree with Shane - I would fit an internally regulated alternator (as I've done with my 71), but with this car originality (within reason) is the goal. I've stuck with brake swivels, alloy drive shaft housings, square edged door handle buttons and metal heater valves - so the voltage regulator at least needs to look the part...

    I'm happy to go through the modification process if I have to, or if someone has a working example (or even a NOS original) for sale I'd be potentially interested. The car won't be doing big miles so the original "analogue" reg will be just fine...

    Cheers,

    Mark...

  12. #12
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ScotFrog View Post
    The DS I got recently has a rat's nest of wiring involving the alternator, regulator, a DIY thingy with substantial heat sink and a relay, all knotted together into an indecipherable tangle. Oh and a toggle switch which doesn't seem to do anything. There are also a group of 3 LEDs (red,green,orange) let into the multi function warning gauge on the dashboard.
    It all seems to work except that when the engine is switched off there is a minor discharge which over time flattens the battery.
    I intend to take it back to a clean system and the thought of nesting a Ford regulator inside the Cit's regulator housing is very appealing.
    Can anyone (HRE?) point me in the direction of the appropriate wiring diagram which can give me a road map of what I need to do and with a few pointers of the difficulties I am liable to face? The car is a 1973 D-Special, manual carby model with AutoClma air conditioning.

    SF
    Hi Scot-

    OK- '73 D, base model with A/C. The regulator is a pretty simple piece to wire up. You have 4 wires leading to it: the EXC wire, marked yellow, which goes to the EXC terminal (also marked in yellow IF it hasn't crumbled away) at the spade connector on the top of the alternator. There is an R wire marked ostensibly in white, and that goes to the small R stud on the back of the alternator. The BOB wire, marked in violet is the only 1/4" spade in the group, and it is the ignition source switching on the regulator. This wire takes its power from the "green" fuse by way of the ignition switch (the yellow sleeved black wire). The final wire is for the L circuit, sleeved in red and this goes to the instrument cluster (green connector, mauve sleeved black wire).

    The output wire is at the alternator, and feeds the red fuse, green fuse, blue fuse, ignition switch at brown (input for the start switch), ignition switch at red, the horn switch, the headlight switch, the high beam relay and, in some cases the air horns.

    This is all to keep the Paris-Rhone/Ducellier system. I personally think the Ford setup is a great way to go if appearing stock is a need and you plan on driving the car more than club and events mileage. If you decide to go internal reg, that's dead nuts easy to set up as well, and you can keep the original regulator can, using it as a terminal strip. The only thing there you must disconnect is the BOB wire.

    If you need more, you know where to find me. I'll be under my rock.



    Bill
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  13. #13
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Many thanks to you all for your responses - it's much appreciated...

    The situation is that the regulator is "regulating" but the circuit which operates the warning light is not. Removing the cover from the unit the light can be manually extinguished by pressing on the electromagnetic contact, but I have 13.6v on the multimeter. I tried adjusting it but I suspect the coil has gone open circuit.

    This means even if I fit an electronic regulator the light circuit would also need to be sorted as well.

    I agree with Shane - I would fit an internally regulated alternator (as I've done with my 71), but with this car originality (within reason) is the goal. I've stuck with brake swivels, alloy drive shaft housings, square edged door handle buttons and metal heater valves - so the voltage regulator at least needs to look the part...

    I'm happy to go through the modification process if I have to, or if someone has a working example (or even a NOS original) for sale I'd be potentially interested. The car won't be doing big miles so the original "analogue" reg will be just fine...

    Cheers,

    Mark...
    Mark, just how early a car are we talking about? Pre-'68?

    If you really want to blow Shane's mind (and your wallet), there's a company here in the US that fits alternator internals to generator cases.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    Brisbane
    Posts
    719

    Default

    Hi Bill,

    Almost.... It's a 69 build year DS21 BVH...

    Pre-1970 build year cars have a lot of significant differences, I've just tried to keep as many as I can - so ideally that includes the reg.

    I'm not a 12v expert, but looking at the wiring diagram the warning light is quenched by the factory relay breaking the contact to ground when the voltage gets high enough. This allows the starter to operate when the light is on, and disables it when it's off.

    It would be interesting to know if as part of the conversion the light operation and it's function in providing a ground for the starter circuit could be preserved.

    Cheers,

    Mark...

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2013
    Location
    Elphinstone Victoria
    Posts
    537

    Default

    Big thanks Bill,
    I'll get a hold of the Ford reg first then see if I can avoid too many sparks knowing that If I do go up in a puff of smoke I'll have the most qualified audience on hand to say "I told him so!".

    SF

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Bill,

    Almost.... It's a 69 build year DS21 BVH...

    Pre-1970 build year cars have a lot of significant differences, I've just tried to keep as many as I can - so ideally that includes the reg.

    I'm not a 12v expert, but looking at the wiring diagram the warning light is quenched by the factory relay breaking the contact to ground when the voltage gets high enough. This allows the starter to operate when the light is on, and disables it when it's off.

    It would be interesting to know if as part of the conversion the light operation and it's function in providing a ground for the starter circuit could be preserved.

    Cheers,

    Mark...
    I you look at the circuit there is yellow Led that indicates "on" (charging).

    All that is needed is to turn a transistor on to switch a relay to replicate the citroen warning light/ starter enable function. Or use power transistors/ mosfets instead of a relay.

  17. #17
    Member Sturla's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2005
    Location
    Bergen, Norway
    Posts
    73

    Default

    Something like this should fit inside the tin. Chop off the fastening flap and glue it inside:
    http://api.vwheritage.com/_img/produ...6F9A5F57BD.jpg
    You might have to modify the starter relay function, these are interconnected on the bvh cars if memory serves?? to ensure it is impossible to engage the starter while the engine runs.
    Myself I went with the option of a new generator with a integrated regulator.

    Cheers
    -74 DS23 bvh, -78 CXgti, -85 CXgtiT1

  18. #18
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by ds21bvh View Post
    Hi Bill,

    Almost.... It's a 69 build year DS21 BVH...

    Pre-1970 build year cars have a lot of significant differences, I've just tried to keep as many as I can - so ideally that includes the reg.

    I'm not a 12v expert, but looking at the wiring diagram the warning light is quenched by the factory relay breaking the contact to ground when the voltage gets high enough. This allows the starter to operate when the light is on, and disables it when it's off.

    It would be interesting to know if as part of the conversion the light operation and it's function in providing a ground for the starter circuit could be preserved.

    Cheers,

    Mark...
    Believe it, the significant differences have been hammered home to me.

    Looks to me you've pretty much got it there. The light relay is just that- a relay. If you replace the factory relay with a standard icecube relay (doable, but space is at a premium), or a mini-icecube (common on late GM and Ford cars) covering the function is easy-peasy.

    You need a 5-pin relay, because you will need terminal 85a- not 85- for the light output. 30 will go to ground. 86 or 87 will also go to ground. the other of 86 or 87 connects to the R stud. Be sure to insulate 85.

    Robmac's power transistor solution would be the elegant way to go, and the packaging would be smaller by orders of magnitude.

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    I you look at the circuit there is yellow Led that indicates "on" (charging).

    All that is needed is to turn a transistor on to switch a relay to replicate the citroen warning light/ starter enable function. Or use power transistors/ mosfets instead of a relay.
    It's not even so sophisticated as an LED. Just a standard incandescent bulb.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScotFrog View Post
    Big thanks Bill,
    I'll get a hold of the Ford reg first then see if I can avoid too many sparks knowing that If I do go up in a puff of smoke I'll have the most qualified audience on hand to say "I told him so!".

    SF
    Get a mushroom cloud over the top of the car if things go pear shaped?
    Last edited by Hotrodelectric; 23rd April 2014 at 07:32 AM. Reason: English is only my first language.....
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona USA
    Posts
    699

    Default

    If you don't have a late BVH with the starter interlock, you can put one of these eBay Ford conversion regulators inside the original regulator case.

    http://tinyurl.com/kngfhkj

    Wire the Ford regulator to the pins inside the case as follows

    Citroen Terminal Ford Terminal
    L I
    BAT A
    R S
    EXC F

    Everything will work as intended. If you want to take the field current load off the ignition switch, just connect the "A" (BAT) terminal directly to the battery (or use the Alternator battery post as a convenient terminal). You cannot do this with the Citroen regulator because it will run the battery flat. You can with the Ford VR.

    If you have a late DS with the starter interlock you either need to disable it by grounding the switch at the wand directly, or you need to add a relay and resister per the diagram posted by Mark B. on the SM Wiki.

    Regards,
    John Titus

  20. #20
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2010
    Location
    San Diego, California, USA
    Posts
    3,543

    Default

    Good to see you here, John.

    Everybody- this is the guy you need to pay attention to. Compared to him, I'm a hack.

    I like that eBay regulator because not only is it the same regulator as the ones packaged in a stock Ford can, but it'll be easier to mount than the stock one.
    Last edited by Hotrodelectric; 29th April 2014 at 07:51 AM.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    If you don't have a late BVH with the starter interlock, you can put one of these eBay Ford conversion regulators inside the original regulator case.

    http://tinyurl.com/kngfhkj

    Wire the Ford regulator to the pins inside the case as follows

    Citroen Terminal Ford Terminal
    L I
    BAT A
    R S
    EXC F

    Everything will work as intended. If you want to take the field current load off the ignition switch, just connect the "A" (BAT) terminal directly to the battery (or use the Alternator battery post as a convenient terminal). You cannot do this with the Citroen regulator because it will run the battery flat. You can with the Ford VR.

    If you have a late DS with the starter interlock you either need to disable it by grounding the switch at the wand directly, or you need to add a relay and resister per the diagram posted by Mark B. on the SM Wiki.

    Regards,
    John Titus
    Unfortunately.

    Shipping: Does not ship to Australia | See details

    Item location:
    Baldwin Park, California, United States

    Ships to:
    United States See exclusions

  22. #22
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    You mean "Available from Hotrodelectric, subject to modest auxiliary handling fee".

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona USA
    Posts
    699

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    Unfortunately.

    Shipping: Does not ship to Australia | See details

    Item location:
    Baldwin Park, California, United States

    Ships to:
    United States See exclusions
    Sorry 'bout that. Here is the same thing from a different seller, who ships worldwide.

    Voltage Regulator Ford Single Wire Conversion 1g 45 65A | eBay

    Cheers,
    John Titus

  24. #24
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    Melbourne / Caulfield
    Posts
    19,215

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by citroenthusiast View Post
    Sorry 'bout that. Here is the same thing from a different seller, who ships worldwide.

    Voltage Regulator Ford Single Wire Conversion 1g 45 65A | eBay

    Cheers,
    John Titus
    John, that seems to be an alternator regulator.

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! citroenthusiast's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2014
    Location
    Phoenix, Arizona USA
    Posts
    699

    Default

    Hello, and yes that's an alternator regulator.

    I believe the original post was for a '69 build year ('70 model year) DS21BVH. That model vehicle should have an alternator. AFAIK alternators were standard from 11/67 onward. In '67 everyone but the US got a Ducellier alternator. The US got Paris Rhone alternators about the same time.

    Cheers,
    John Titus

Page 1 of 2 12 Last

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •