WTD: 2000 Berlingo wiring diagram for tacho
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Only19's Avatar
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    Default WTD: 2000 Berlingo wiring diagram for tacho

    Hi all - am sallying forth to Citroen land for this one!
    Project: Am trying to patch in an emulator for the tacho signal, as this Berlingo is converted to electric drive, but:
    (a) there is no petrol engine loom to trace (or engine computer, or most of the engine bay wiring for that matter!) and I seem to have failed to label the one useful wire amongst all the ones i did do so for when we converted it
    (b) The Haymes book of lies wiring diagrams don't actually show the wiring of this model car (!?)
    (c) Alternate idea was to pick it up via the feed into the dash cluster instead of the lost engine bay one, BUT the cluster is a one piece non-dismantleable bastard item, so can't just trace and hack into the wiring behind it like a 99 model Berlingo cluster
    Therefore:
    Am trying to trace a wiring diagram that actually has the correct wiring for a 2000 model (one piece instrument cluster, 2 connectors to the dash). May then either be able to find it in the remaining engine bay plugs, or find the right wire behind the cluster.

    Many thanks for reading this - hoping someone can help!
    Cheers
    Bryce

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  2. #2
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Easy fix fit one of these: Soundracer for $55.95 DELIVERED FREE in Australia - V8, V10, V12 Rev Transmitters - Perfect anytime Gift for the trendsetter

    Then rectify the audio to drive the tacho

    The modern trend seems to derive the tacho drive signal from engine ECU, so it may be a serial signal.

    You may need to hack into meter movement directly. In days gone by these were 1ma FSD meters.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Only19's Avatar
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    Will look into that - a good hovercar sound would be neat ...

    On a more serious note - hacking the speedo was my preferred option, but the dash is a single piece unit that cannot be disassembled. (Sadly, the 1999 cluster is easy to pull apart, bu the plugs are different - so presume the signalling is also different). Hence the need to identify the specific input pin to the dash. (The plugs design won't allow inserting a probe either). Which comes back to sourcing a proper wiring diagram that actually has the wire code and/or pin position.

    Hope that explains things a bit better.

    Cheers
    Bryce
    Who needs brakes? They only slow you down ....

  4. #4
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Just a duh suggestion, look into an aftermarket cruise control unit? If absolutely nothing else, the instructions may give you the cluster pin-out. Look on the unit's website, a lot of them have the install manuals posted.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Only19's Avatar
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    I like you're thinking! Will go searching and get back on my findings.
    Cheers
    Bryce
    Who needs brakes? They only slow you down ....

  6. #6
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Only19 View Post
    I like you're thinking! Will go searching and get back on my findings.
    Cheers
    Bryce
    Just years of doing this stuff from a slightly different perspective, my man.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  7. #7
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    There is no specific tacho feed to the dash. It's encrypted via the multiplex twisted pair (look for sequential four digit numbers beginning with 90).

    Why don't you put in a pre-mux dash if it's an M49 'lingus?

  8. #8
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    There is no specific tacho feed to the dash. It's encrypted via the multiplex twisted pair (look for sequential four digit numbers beginning with 90).

    Why don't you put in a pre-mux dash if it's an M49 'lingus?
    Christ, that means the decoder is in the cluster itself. Is there a VSS on that drivetrain package, Adam? Almost would have to be. The platform module has to get a sine wave signal from somewhere. If he can fit the non-multiplex cluster as you suggest, Bryce might be able to split the signal.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  9. #9
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    There's a VSS on the gearbox, plus the CAS of the motor. I think the VSS goes to the ECU, then is multiplexed to the dash (via the BSI). It may go to the BSM (confusingly, PSF1 in French) then to the dash - some senders are encrypted there, like oil level and oil temp.

    I bought a UK cluster for my pre-mux Berlingo, and just fitted the Aussie speedometer. That gave me tacho and digital clock - total cost with freight was about $130. You can't fit a PSA tacho into the pre-mux Aussie Berlingo cluster as the back shell is different.

    To think outside the box, what about stimulating the ECU?

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    To think outside the box, what about stimulating the ECU?
    As I eluded to earlier why not get up the skirt of the cluster. IE Get into the actual moving coil meter, ie the winding the that makes the pointer move.

    You are likely to find it is current meter, with 1mA for fsd (full scale deflection). Cut the cluster pcb tracks if the meter is not referenced to ground or +ve.

    After that you need select shunt (parallel) and/or multiplier (series) resistors to work with 0-5v, 0-12v DC signal that is generated as RPM signal.

    Use the kiss principle and use what you have.

  11. #11
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    It's a basic movement as on several of the dials there: Citroen C5 speedo stepper motor | eBay

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    Quote Originally Posted by robmac View Post
    As I eluded to earlier why not get up the skirt of the cluster. IE Get into the actual moving coil meter, ie the winding the that makes the pointer move.
    You are likely to find it is current meter, with 1mA for fsd (full scale deflection). Cut the cluster pcb tracks if the meter is not referenced to ground or +ve.
    After that you need select shunt (parallel) and/or multiplier (series) resistors to work with 0-5v, 0-12v DC signal that is generated as RPM signal.
    Use the kiss principle and use what you have.
    Hi
    If that internet reference is correct then the speedo and probably the tacho also is not a current meter at all but a stepper motor. Must be driven by the ecu directly to its position. That will make it hard to get working.
    jaahn

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi
    If that internet reference is correct then the speedo and probably the tacho also is not a current meter at all but a stepper motor. Must be driven by the ecu directly to its position. That will make it hard to get working.
    jaahn
    Steppers are easy easy to drive with arduino. Arduino - Stepper

    Probably a lot easier to use arduino than trying to reverse engineer the vehicle can bus.

    But of course, arduino can handle that as well.

    CAN bus analyzer - Arduino Forum

    Cheap & simple MCP2551/MCP2515 CAN BUS set up - Arduino Forum

    And most the hardware is off the shelf and half of the sketch (code) is written for you.

    PS on a 14 year old car it could be using either D to A or stepper. So I took a guess. Of course our resident expert quickly corrected me.
    Last edited by robmac; 21st April 2014 at 09:42 AM.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Only19's Avatar
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    Default Back to where I started, for the 3rd time!

    Hi again - been busy all weekend & offline most of the time! Seems we have all managed to get back to where I have ended up twice before (3 years ago when we put the car on the road, and last Sat when I started investigating it again). Without knowing the relevent tacho wires into the dash, I am stuffed.
    This time:
    1. Not had a lot of luck with the aftermarket cruise controls - only got references to speedo cabling.
    2. Re hacking into the tacho in the cluster - the cluster is a single piece unit that cannot be disassembled. (Trust me on that one - I am generally very good at disassembling the impossible, but this one has me beat!). There is no ability to access the wiring or tracks as it is all internal and inaccessible.
    3. The only access to the tacho inputs would therefore be via whichever are the relevant wires/pins in one of the 2 multi-input plugs.
    4. But I don't know what they are as the wiring diagrams are incomplete... so am back to where I started! If I can find the pins, the AC motor controller can be programmed to emulate the signal.

    NB the Berlingo is a 2002 not 2000. (you gotta love VicRoads deleting rego stickers - I got around to checking under the bonnet instead of relying on my memory!).

    Cheers
    Bryce
    Who needs brakes? They only slow you down ....

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