Pinking in DS23: can it cause damage
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    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    Default Pinking in DS23: can it cause damage

    well I went for a longer drive today, something the car hadn't seen since 2006. And I'm sure she was just as glad as me.

    On the way back uphill I got a lot of pinking, most likely due to my using standard unleaded. I know next time it will need to be 98, but can I run out this full tank I've got or should I add an additive in the meantime?

    And would I create a problem with continuous pinking?

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Are you running the stock ignition? You might need to set the static timing.
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    I'd retard the ignition a wee bit until the noise goes away, and start adding 98 octane fuel once it is 3/4 full. Also avoid heavy acceleration - feathertouch driving...

    I've read horror stories of piston damage but honestly have no real experience of it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by harrisson_citroen View Post
    well I went for a longer drive today, something the car hadn't seen since 2006. And I'm sure she was just as glad as me.

    On the way back uphill I got a lot of pinking, most likely due to my using standard unleaded. I know next time it will need to be 98, but can I run out this full tank I've got or should I add an additive in the meantime?

    And would I create a problem with continuous pinking?
    Harrisson,

    I've had occassions of unintentioally (or having no choice) of filling up with low octane fuel and without altering the timing it is unwise to continue pushing your engine to the extent of pinging due to low octane fuel.

    Pinging will damage the engine in due course. Not advisable to allow it to continue the pinging.

    Take it easy , change down/ease off on the pedal the moment you hear/feel it pinging untill ready for the next fill.

    John

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    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    allrighty then, will start refilling slowly with 98 and take it easy in the meantime.
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    And would I create a problem with continuous pinking?
    Yes. It will gall the pistons and cylinder head.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post
    Harrisson,

    I've had occassions of unintentioally (or having no choice) of filling up with low octane fuel and without altering the timing it is unwise to continue pushing your engine to the extent of pinging due to low octane fuel.

    Pinging will damage the engine in due course. Not advisable to allow it to continue the pinging.

    Take it easy , change down/ease off on the pedal the moment you hear/feel it pinging untill ready for the next fill.

    John
    Not only pistons, but rods and bearings suffer too!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    I believe that octane in the fuel can dissipate over time, so fresh fuel and a well sealed tank can assist with maximum octane levels.


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    The only place for aged fuel is either as a fire-starter or well-diluted in the tank of a non-fussy motor. A stabiliser is good practice; these reduce corrosion of a tank.

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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    Pro-Strength Octane Booster- Nulon Australia

    WHy would you drive a car that you know is going to ping????


    Jo

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    UFO
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    Thankyou Harrison for calling it what it is. Pinking - meaning an incomplete ignition of the fuel load.

    Go straight to 98 as soon as you can.
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    Quote Originally Posted by jo proffi View Post
    Pro-Strength Octane Booster- Nulon Australia

    WHy would you drive a car that you know is going to ping????


    Jo
    Does, this stuff really work, or is it a con?


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    1000+ Posts jo proffi's Avatar
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    I dont know?

    Never needed it.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    It does make a modest improvement to ability of the fuel to resist detonation.

    From memory, Nulon's Injector Cleaner has some additives that help, as well. But the first step is to stop being tight and get the fuel out of there.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Thankyou Harrison for calling it what it is. Pinking - meaning an incomplete ignition of the fuel load.

    Go straight to 98 as soon as you can.
    Not incomplete ignition at all.

    Pinging/pinking is a symptom caused by an early or uncontrolled propagation of the flame front in the combustion chamber.

    When an engine is operating correctly, the flame front will propagate from the spark at the spark plug, and progressively burn outwards until all fuel/air mix has combusted. This gives a nice predictable and even increase in combustion chamber pressure which provides optimum power as the piston is pushed down evenly and smoothly (and the timing of peak pressure to coincide with the correct position of the piston in the downwards stroke is adjusted by precise timing of the spark).

    The pinking/pinging sound is caused when the peak pressure inside the combustion chamber occurs too early in the cycle (i.e. the piston is still heading upwards and compressing the burning fuel/air mix, which is trying to expand).

    "Detonation" is generally caused when there is an ignition source other than the spark from the spark plug - e.g. hot carbon deposits or overheated glowing spark plug tips.

    Alternatively, the heat of compression may cause early ignition (where a very high compression engine is run on fuel of too low an octane) - this is how diesel engines achieve ignition ("compression ignition").

    In this case, the problem is ignition timing. Different octane fuels burn at different speeds - lower octane fuels burn more quickly. So if an engine's ignition timing is set for 98 octane fuel, and 91 octane is then used, the result will be that the flame front will propagate too quickly and maximum combustion chamber pressure will occur too early - the result may be heard as a "pinging" sound.

    This can be addressed by retarding the timing slightly (although the ignition advance curve in the distributor will likely not be correct either, meaning a further loss of efficiency).

    The damage that can result from this problem have been described above - all caused by the piston trying to compress a burning gas. You would have to be very unsympathetic to your engine to do serious damage on only one tankful of low octane fuel.

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    mnm
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    Dear moderators

    can we start a new sticky on pinking, pinging, pre post detonation, farting, spewing and spitting please. Every time someone asks a question about it, someone writes an essay on the correct term(s) and meaning. No disrespect to contributors but I grow weary...

    Matthew

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    Quote Originally Posted by mnm View Post
    Dear moderators

    can we start a new sticky on pinking, pinging, pre post detonation, farting, spewing and spitting please. Every time someone asks a question about it, someone writes an essay on the correct term(s) and meaning. No disrespect to contributors but I grow weary...

    Matthew

    Then just skip over it.

    No one forced you to open this thread, or read its contents. Skip over it.

    Saying "no disrespect" when you are being rude is just hypocrisy.

    The fact that admin types have thoughtlessly "liked" your post shows how much this site has slipped in the last few years.

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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Aww c'mon Trevor,
    Matthew's post was very obviously tongue in cheek and full of light hearted humour, it does follow a spate of definitions on the subject of pinking/pinging/pre-detonation or whatever you like to call it in several threads recently - a sticky on the cause(s) and effects is not a bad suggestion.

    For your information I give a lot of thought to any post I 'like'

    Cheers
    Chris





    Quote Originally Posted by Trevor G View Post
    Then just skip over it.

    No one forced you to open this thread, or read its contents. Skip over it.

    Saying "no disrespect" when you are being rude is just hypocrisy.

    The fact that admin types have thoughtlessly "liked" your post shows how much this site has slipped in the last few years.
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Your wasting your time putting 98 in limited use cars. The chemicals that raise the octane level apparently boil off within a couple of weeks. ............ Hey look at that, a 5second google search. Bugger me it's "goes off" in about 3weeks

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    Fellow Frogger! Mungous's Avatar
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    Also, there is no need for 98 octane in an engine running a compression ratio as low as a DS.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungous View Post
    Also, there is no need for 98 octane in an engine running a compression ratio as low as a DS.
    Later DS's and carby CX's need the high octane brew. They run on and ping on the slop they sell as 91. The early long stroke are fine on anything that'll burn ( what 7:1 compression ?? ).

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  22. #22
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    You don't get 95 in Oz? 98 is comparatively rare here in NZ, and a fair bit more expensive than 95. 91 is only fit for Hillman Hunters. :

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mungous View Post
    You don't get 95 in Oz? 98 is comparatively rare here in NZ, and a fair bit more expensive than 95. 91 is only fit for Hillman Hunters. :
    It's around, a lot of places have phased it out .... They make more money forcing anyone that wants higher octane to buy 98

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Proper cars--
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Hi Matthew,

    I took the plunge and started a thread with the excellent commentary of Roger from Castlemaine (LHS2.1) As I'm on Trevor's ignore list, I felt "safe" to post this comment here.

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    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Your wasting your time putting 98 in limited use cars. The chemicals that raise the octane level apparently boil off within a couple of weeks. ............ Hey look at that, a 5second google search. Bugger me it's "goes off" in about 3weeks

    http://www.bp.com/retail/liveassets/...le_tanksv4.pdf
    That might explain why a GS feels like it's got 100HP under the bonnet once you've filled her up and driven out of the servo driveway.
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