Maserati Khamsin hydraulics
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Default Maserati Khamsin hydraulics

    Hi Guys,

    Does anyone know where I can find the manuals or details on the Maserati khamsins hydraulics. I can't even find the accumulator/regulator on it. Given there is no suspension I'm assuming it'll be running multiple accumulators as braking backups.

    There's one in town here that's had brake fluid put in it It appears to be a modified DS steering rack (modified for Diravi no doubt), DS hydraulic pump, hydraulic rams for the headlights, there also appears to be a hydraulic switch for the drivers seat to move with.

    seeya,
    Shane L.

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    It's rooted - make them an offer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Hi Guys,

    Does anyone know where I can find the manuals or details on the Maserati khamsins hydraulics. I can't even find the accumulator/regulator on it. Given there is no suspension I'm assuming it'll be running multiple accumulators as braking backups.

    There's one in town here that's had brake fluid put in it It appears to be a modified DS steering rack (modified for Diravi no doubt), DS hydraulic pump, hydraulic rams for the headlights, there also appears to be a hydraulic switch for the drivers seat to move with.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Hi Shane, I found this on the Khamsin
    http://www.thecarnut.com/Manuals/MUM_KhamsinAm120.pdf

    Plate 189 shows the schematics of the Hydraulic system.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Hi Shane, I found this on the Khamsin
    http://www.thecarnut.com/Manuals/MUM_KhamsinAm120.pdf

    Plate 189 shows the schematics of the Hydraulic system.
    How on earth did you find that ... brilliant! I'll take it up to the guy working on it. Talk about being thrown into the deep end given he's never worked on a hydraulic car

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    JBN
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    Well, he has put brake fluid into it, so he must have some idea about hydraulics.

    Tell him the Italians ONLY used Extra Virgin Oilive Oil for their hydraulics.

    Keep us posted in the Humour Forum.

    John

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    How on earth did you find that ... brilliant! I'll take it up to the guy working on it. Talk about being thrown into the deep end given he's never worked on a hydraulic car

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Did a search on Maser Khamsin and turned up a detailed description of the model. It was in an enthusiasts appraisal of all things Maserati, including a drop down of tech info!


    The Car Nut - Maserati Manuals and Brochures

    Above is the manuals drop down section with link to the home page!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Maserati Khamsin hydraulics-maserati_hydraulics.jpg



    Ok, so we have two brake accumulators, a main accumulator/regulator. That must be the speed sensing device for the daravi off the rear axle ( the car doesn't get heavier with speed I'm told)

    they should have some fun. I'll drop this diagram into them tomorrow. It's way better than the "nothing" they have to go on now.

    seeya
    Shane L.
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
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    Ok, so we have two brake accumulators, a main accumulator/regulator. That must be the speed sensing device for the daravi off the rear axle ( the car doesn't get heavier with speed I'm told)

    they should have some fun. I'll drop this diagram into them tomorrow. It's way better than the "nothing" they have to go on now.

    seeya
    Shane L.
    Why not give them the link for the whole manual?
    Cheers Gerry

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Why not give them the link for the whole manual?
    I'll give it too them on disk. I'm really thinking any of them will be computer literate enough to read it (maybe??). I'd print it out if it wasn't 200 pages long!

    that's a bizarre idea .... axle driven pump to drive the diravi centering I wonder how the brake biasing is working, there is no rear suspension pressure to use.

    It's not a bad looking car. Nicely aged interior, not perfect (but nice) paint ..... The maserati is gone ... replaced with a 350 chev.......... Which is probalby quite a smart idea (other than the weight). Likely the same sort of power as the smaller maserati, none of the complication and you can stick a new crate motor in there for a few thousand (rather than the 10's of thousands the maserati would be to rebuild). ............................... and I bet that's why the diravi isn't working. I bet it has an american muscle car diff under the back with no drive takeoff for the pump.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 14th March 2014 at 11:06 PM.
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    JBN
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    One picture is worth a thousand words, or indeed a manual.

    Once they take a look, they might ask Shane to store it for them at his place.

    John

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    Liquid Electricity is almost always beyond the capabilities of suburban mechanics. It even defeats people who specialise in it.
    Don't it always seem to go that you don't know what you've got 'til it's gone............

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Hi Guys,

    Does anyone know where I can find the manuals or details on the Maserati khamsins hydraulics. I can't even find the accumulator/regulator on it. Given there is no suspension I'm assuming it'll be running multiple accumulators as braking backups.

    There's one in town here that's had brake fluid put in it It appears to be a modified DS steering rack (modified for Diravi no doubt), DS hydraulic pump, hydraulic rams for the headlights, there also appears to be a hydraulic switch for the drivers seat to move with.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    You have to marvel at adapting those hydraulics the way it seems they did it to a car with a total production run of 421.

    Still, if it has robust, common mechanicals now, there's no reason why it couldn't be wonderful. Maybe drive the Diravi pump electrically if the diff isn't orginal? Quite a brave mechanic...
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kim Luck View Post
    Liquid Electricity is almost always beyond the capabilities of suburban mechanics. It even defeats people who specialise in it.
    If those specialists only realized they were doing it wrong they might quit before they cause more collateral damage.
    Sadly, that is never the case.
    Via the aussiefrogs App

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    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduck View Post
    If those specialists only realized they were doing it wrong they might quit before they cause more collateral damage.
    Sadly, that is never the case.
    Via the aussiefrogs App
    Very loose use of the word "specialist" eh?

    Sometimes it is quite surprising what a good generalist, with brains, can do. But adding brake fluid to a system when you don't know what fluid is already there..... Not that Shane suggested the mechanic who now has the car did this, I'd add.
    JohnW

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    i remember that car when Brooklands sold it. Was a nice car with a chev motor.... 350 sounds right. Who would know what has been done. Was cheap at the time, 3 years ago, I think it was. Personally, i would have preferred the original motor, but that's just me. I would have been taking it to the mechanic that did the modification.

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    Such a shame it has been butchered with a Chev motor. No matter that it might make sense but it ain't no Maserati now. How would you feel if someone put a Toyota motor in a D. I hope he didn't spend to much on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    Such a shame it has been butchered with a Chev motor. No matter that it might make sense but it ain't no Maserati now. How would you feel if someone put a Toyota motor in a D. I hope he didn't spend to much on it.
    One answer to your question is smoother!
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    There is a great chapter on the Khamsin in Andrew Brodie's book "An omelette and three glasses of wine" - a book that is thoroughly recommended for all classic Citroen lovers.
    A quote -
    "There was a tight, blind second-gear right, followed by a sweeping, open left-right-left, accelerating flat-out completely on through the lot with the car dancing gracefully back and forth on tip-toes and an upshift in the middle, and back on the brakes hard, hard, harder and a blast on the throttle for the downshift for another blind right-hander and finally nail it up through third and forth with all those V8 horses bellowing down the mountainside.
    Well, yes, I should remember that part well enough, shouldn't I? After all, I did turn around and drive it five times. Not a real Maserati, my ass."
    Pity this one has lost it's bellowing V8.
    roger

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	maserati_hydraulics.jpg 
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    Ok, so we have two brake accumulators, a main accumulator/regulator. That must be the speed sensing device for the daravi off the rear axle ( the car doesn't get heavier with speed I'm told)
    they should have some fun. I'll drop this diagram into them tomorrow. It's way better than the "nothing" they have to go on now.
    seeyaShane L.


    Hi
    This is the classic example of taking a simple idea and translating it into a nightmare in reality.

    The simplicity of the D series is looking good after that. The hydraulic engineers retrained into electronics after this effort in preparation for the C5 and onwards !
    jaahn

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post


    Hi
    This is the classic example of taking a simple idea and translating it into a nightmare in reality.

    The simplicity of the D series is looking good after that. The hydraulic engineers retrained into electronics after this effort in preparation for the C5 and onwards !
    jaahn
    Have a closer look ... it's pretty simple'ish. Daravi with what must be a pump ... more likely something low pressure like a regulator as used on later DS BVH's for creep on the rear axle. A couple of brake accumulator ('cos you have no suspension too back up the brakes). Using hydraulics to lift the headlights and move the drivers seat is crazy ... but hey, were talking citroen here :rolmao:

    I've been told on the SM list it has a SM steering rack, SM pump, SM diravi controller, SM reseviour and likely an SM brake valve. The hydraulic clutch is CX prestige ... etc...
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
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    the car doesn't get heavier with speed I'm told)


    Shane L.
    The whole point of 'Diravi is the variable rate of pressure in relation to speed'.
    Diravi is a contraction of Direction Avariable. French for Variable Steering!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Using hydraulics to lift the headlights and move the drivers seat is crazy ... but hey, were talking citroen here
    What's crazy about that? You have all that hydraulic power at your disposal, why not use it? I have heard the DS designers were at one stage planning to power the windscreen wipers hydraulically. But then I have also heard a rumour that someone in the design team suggested powering the interior lights with glow worms and phosphorescent fish. And all we got was the striplights ...

    Roger

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    The whole point of 'Diravi is the variable rate of pressure in relation to speed'.
    Diravi is a contraction of Direction Avariable. French for Variable Steering!
    I think Shane is saying the car is supposed to have Diravi but doesn't, probably because something is not right at the rear.

    Roger

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Roger Wilkinson View Post
    I think Shane is saying the car is supposed to have Diravi but doesn't, probably because something is not right at the rear.

    Roger
    Its centering force isn't increasing with speed. Given it's 2turns lock to lock this would make the car downright dangerous to drive at speed, if you even blinked you'd cross lanes etc.....
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    Having looked at some pictures of the Khamsin V8, I think it would be a cracking retrofit motor for a PRV car.

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