DS gearbox whine..
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    mnm
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    Default DS gearbox whine..

    Hi all

    what is the component of the DS gearbox that makes it whine in 4th gear?

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    Matthew

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    I had a wife like that....
    Every day when I wake up I reach up in the darkness with my eyes shut and if I cannot feel anything that resembles a wooden lid I know it will be a good day. No lid today.

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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I can see there'll be no shortage of "whine" jokes on this thread.

    Is the oil level right, and is there any whine in other gears? Does it whine when you push the clutch in, in fourth?

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    mnm
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    Only in 4 th, under acceleration. I was under the impression it was common, I'm just curious what is the actual culprit.... apart from husbands...

    Matthew

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    Matthew,
    There was a gear combination that whined in 4th gear. My 69 DS 20 had the combination and at the time a new gear set was fitted to reduce the on/off noise. I suspect yours is the same ratioed box as my DS 20, which was really a glorified 1985cc D Special. No doubt the more technical types will offer more facts.

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Being an all indirect gearbox there is always more gear noise than a conventional gearbox with straight through drive for top gear.
    I assume that you consider that the noise is excessive!
    Supect :- 1. Oil level
    2. Oil quality and type A good 80/w90 with Nulon G70 additive is a good start.
    3. Worn bearings. 4th gear is adjacent to the front bearings on the main and pinion shafts. Noise becomes more apparent when this gear is selected although it can be present in the lower gears.
    If the bearing are suspect it will necessitate a complete strip down of the gear box!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Default DS Gearbox whine

    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Being an all indirect gearbox there is always more gear noise than a conventional gearbox with straight through drive for top gear.
    I assume that you consider that the noise is excessive!
    Supect :- 1. Oil level
    2. Oil quality and type A good 80/w90 with Nulon G70 additive is a good start.
    3. Worn bearings. 4th gear is adjacent to the front bearings on the main and pinion shafts. Noise becomes more apparent when this gear is selected although it can be present in the lower gears.
    If the bearing are suspect it will necessitate a complete strip down of the gear box!


    Such a whine gradually developed in one of my Ds quite a few years ago. On investigation, it was found there was NO oil remaining in the gearbox. Some months earlier, I had had the car "serviced" at the country town where we lived and unknown to me, a new mechanic was given the job. Yes, he had drained the gearbox, thinking it was the engine sump. Then refilled the engine oil, thus overfilling the sump, and delivered the car. The amazing thing was that the car then travelled in this unlubricated transmission mode for some months without any protest. And, it continued without difficulty (with transmission oil now of course) for the remaining few years that I continued to own the car.

    This servicing mistake was made to two of our cars in the 15 years we owned Ds from the late 1960s. I'd be very surprised if it had not happened to other people's cars too.

    Cheers

    Ken

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    I can see there'll be no shortage of "whine" jokes on this thread.

    Is the oil level right, and is there any whine in other gears? Does it whine when you push the clutch in, in fourth?
    Quote Originally Posted by mnm View Post

    Hi all

    what is the component of the DS gearbox that makes it whine in 4th gear?

    Matthew
    Probably the factory installed baby. Not a problem on the 5 speeds because there just isn't room.

    /yes, I feel like a smartass today. Why do you ask?
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    gerrypro, I think you are incorrect about the replacement of the bearings at the front of the gearbox requiring a complete disassembly.
    My memory is that both the bearings are readily accessed , removed and replaced via the end caps. The bearing outers are lipped unlike normal bearings. Again from memory !, but I am pretty sure that both the upper and lower bearings were replaced that way before we went to the extent of replacing the gear set.
    We are talking a 4 speed box, not a 5 speeder that has the extra "layer" of bits fitted into the nose of the gearbox.
    My DS workshop book is being elusive today !

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    mnm
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Being an all indirect gearbox there is always more gear noise than a conventional gearbox with straight through drive for top gear.
    I assume that you consider that the noise is excessive!
    Supect :- 1. Oil level
    2. Oil quality and type A good 80/w90 with Nulon G70 additive is a good start.
    3. Worn bearings. 4th gear is adjacent to the front bearings on the main and pinion shafts. Noise becomes more apparent when this gear is selected although it can be present in the lower gears.
    If the bearing are suspect it will necessitate a complete strip down of the gear box!

    No not that excessive, although I've nothing to compare it to. Oil levels are all fine and I've changed it once a year during my ownership with the oil/additives you mention. It kind of dissipates the faster you go so by 100 kph it's not that noticeable. If it's something that can be cured some time in the future then sure I'd be happy to live without it.

    thanks

    Matthew

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    Has any mechanic / D expert listened to your car to see if it is normal or not?

    When I had my GS Convertisseur and my sister had a GS manual I remember that her manual was quite a bit noisier (whine) in the gears. My sister's car was serviced by Duttons in Richmond, they said the noise was normal.

    I also have vague memories of reading road tests of the GS when it was new, when the gear whine was criticized in several road tests. One of the tests even commented something like "why can't Citroen make quiet gearboxes" which suggests to me that it wasn't only the GS that had a raucous gearbox. To me that whine is just part of the symphony that an old Cit plays as it motors along. But I'm not the expert.

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    Without being smartRs are you sure its the gearbox?

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    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    gerrypro, I think you are incorrect about the replacement of the bearings at the front of the gearbox requiring a complete disassembly.
    My memory is that both the bearings are readily accessed , removed and replaced via the end caps. The bearing outers are lipped unlike normal bearings. Again from memory !, but I am pretty sure that both the upper and lower bearings were replaced that way before we went to the extent of replacing the gear set.
    We are talking a 4 speed box, not a 5 speeder that has the extra "layer" of bits fitted into the nose of the gearbox.
    My DS workshop book is being elusive today !
    Sorry in advance- I don't have the software that will readily allow posting of a PDF. That said, I had a quick look at 814-2, and yes, it appears you can do the replacements that way. There is no description for such a procedure, but the pictures make it look feasible.

    Maybe put in a word to Harry Martens on this? He does post here occasionally.
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    I have heard the theory that Citroen selected the better 4 speed 'boxes for the 21s, the lesser cars got the noisy ones !
    Or was it the extra sound deadening in the DSs that concealed the whine better ?
    Just a few thoughts.

    Richard

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    Quote Originally Posted by fritzelhund View Post
    gerrypro, I think you are incorrect about the replacement of the bearings at the front of the gearbox requiring a complete disassembly.
    My memory is that both the bearings are readily accessed , removed and replaced via the end caps. The bearing outers are lipped unlike normal bearings. Again from memory !, but I am pretty sure that both the upper and lower bearings were replaced that way before we went to the extent of replacing the gear set.
    We are talking a 4 speed box, not a 5 speeder that has the extra "layer" of bits fitted into the nose of the gearbox.
    My DS workshop book is being elusive today !
    If you take that approach with a TA gearbox you will end up with the crown wheel and pinion out of adjustment and it will whine. A DS box may be able to have the races replaced whilst in the car but I would never do it that way. I would want to make sure that all the end floats and clearances and depth settings were accurate in order to save myself the heart ache of having to do it all over again. I would also want to look at the rest of the box to make sure that there was no other excessive wear. It takes a long time for the races to deteriorate and if they are worn it is odds on that other components will need attention as well.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Hello, draining the 'oxtail soup' from my gearbox and replacing with new oil plus a gearbox additive calmed the box dramatically. I changed it all again a 1000 miles later, nice and quiet and although ponderous, no crunching sychro's. Mine is a five speed so I changed both lots of oil. I also used epoxy to fit magnets into the sump plugs.

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    skp
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    Sorry, the 4 speed boxes from this period often came equipped from new with the whine, to a greater or lesser extent. Bugger all you can do about it. Thicker oil helps MARGINALLY, but there is no real cure, apart from replacing the box.
    The whine comes from the cut of the gear… Replacing the 4th gear can also work - provided you get one of the quiet ones!
    The batch of DSpecials that were brought in to Oz - 1970 - 72 were the most prevalent offenders. Five speed boxes were not a problem.
    skp

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    Quote Originally Posted by skp View Post
    Sorry, the 4 speed boxes from this period often came equipped from new with the whine, to a greater or lesser extent. Bugger all you can do about it. Thicker oil helps MARGINALLY, but there is no real cure, apart from replacing the box.
    The whine comes from the cut of the gear… Replacing the 4th gear can also work - provided you get one of the quiet ones!
    The batch of DSpecials that were brought in to Oz - 1970 - 72 were the most prevalent offenders. Five speed boxes were not a problem.
    skp
    Mine makes the same soft whine. It does not worry me, and thought it was normal.

    Cheers
    Brian
    1970 D Super. (Little Miss Petite).

    To quote Maxwell Smart........"And Loving It!"

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