C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures
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Thread: C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures

  1. #1
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    Default C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures

    Here's the story - Went to look at a 2006 C4 HDI advertised cheaply on Carsales. Only 120K's, nice straight body & clean paintwork and the interior still smelt new. The seller informs me the car has a couple of "idiosyncrasies". It's makes a little bit of a whine when running and it has a small oil leak.

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    I started the car. Well I've heard quieter 747's spool up and the oil leak would have put the Exxon Valdez to shame. I said thanks but no thanks and went to walk away when he said "how much would you offer me".

    The car drove like a new one, apart from the turbo. It had just (4000 K's ago) all four injectors replaced, major service and timing belt/water pump replaced at a cost of $5750. Previous service history was perfect. That sealed the deal. Cut to the chase - I picked it up for an absolute ridiculous price. But still, I would be taking a big punt on the turbo, that it had not spewed it's internals into the motor.

    So got it home & whipped the turbo off and found this.

    C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_163327.jpg Click image for larger version. 

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    Turbo bearing failure and impeller has contacted the housing.

    C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_162428.jpg C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_162433.jpg
    Inlet turbo housing damage. It looks pretty superficial to me so I'm gonna take the punt on replacing the turbo core (cartridge) only and keeping the housing.

    C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_160529.jpg
    Oil soaked air flow sensor. I hope it is OK. It seemed to drive OK on the way home - apart from the oil smoke. (Yes I know I shouldn't have driven it with the turbo howling but I didn't have any other way to get it home.)

    C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_161719.jpg C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_162137.jpg C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_162150.jpg
    Turbo oil pipe, bottom banjo bolt, showing filter gauze. I didn't find it blocked and the pipe seemed not to be blocked either. Bit of a mystery why the turbo failed. I know they're prone to it but I wold feel a lot better if I found hard evidence of the reason for it's failure. I'll be changing the oil & filter every 5000 k's when I get it back on the road.

    C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-capture.jpgC4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-filter.jpg
    Also playing with the idea of fitting a cleanable in-line oil filter for the turbo and keep a close eye on that.

    C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_160316.jpg C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_162450.jpg
    The VNT mechanism all de-coked and cleaned up ready for assembly.

    C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_162807.jpg C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_162813.jpg
    The shiny new cartridge assembly ready to go in.

    C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_164627.jpg C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_164638.jpg
    There it is all boxed up and ready to go back in the car.

    C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_160332.jpg C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140222_160601.jpg
    I'll document the sump remove & refit for the oil pickup replacement next weekend after the parts arrive from Europe.
    SLC206, AWD and UFO like this.

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Not using the correct engine oil, some dealer were very good at supplying the wrong oil, and it was I that had the audacity to bring this matter to "DEALER SERVICE" and A/F in my post oils ain't oils, at the time The correct oil was Total with the specific numbers, you could also get Mobil1 esp which was the go only because Total oil was hard to get, when the dealer long gone now, put the wrong oil in my C4 hdi and called me a idiot as a result world war 3 had just started that was then, I had the same result with my C5 hdi with the with the auto gear box that is why I decided it was time to go, now I have a DS3 petrol and the idiots at that want to service my DS3 the DEALER wants to start ww4, I will not have my DS3 serviced by the DEALER, I will get the car serviced with the correct engine oil, its my car and my money, as for the importer, that's another issue. tony

  3. #3
    UFO
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    Many oils on the Australian market meet the stated specifications of the engines in Citroens and other French marques. It is the specifications of the oil that are relevant, NOT the brand on the bottle.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    Quote Originally Posted by wozzlegummich View Post
    ... Bit of a mystery why the turbo failed.
    ...
    Foreign object lost during the injector job perhaps? It looks far too clean and you are not finding the expected chunks of carbon.

    There is a stud for the sump at the gearbox end and that may be loose, contributing to the oil leakage problem.

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    David I think the oil leak is turbo related. When the impeller goes 'munch' the exhaust wheel goes backwards and the oil seal is compromised QED oil leak that would do a WW2 convoy proud. Then same happens when the exhaust wheel falls off, Um early DIY turbos, just that the Very rapidly spinning impeller tries to machine it's way into the housing AND then spits the shrapnel into the engine. Oh the Horror!
    Brendan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Many oils on the Australian market meet the stated specifications of the engines in Citroens and other French marques. It is the specifications of the oil that are relevant, NOT the brand on the bottle.
    Many?

    Would you like to name some?

    Many?

    I think you exaggerate, greatly.

    If we are talking about diesels with particulate filters it wouldn't be "many", would it?

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    This assembly - may I ask from where you acquired it?

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    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-1393416753478.jpg  
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    Ebay - abcturbo. 3 days from China to Australia. (Donning flame proof suit ready for the howling of protest about Chinese sourced parts)
    Last edited by wozzlegummich; 27th February 2014 at 09:05 AM.

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    I was procrastinating about if it really was necessary to pull off the sump.

    Short answer - YES, it really was!

    C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140226_174422%5B1%5D.jpg C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140226_174431%5B1%5D.jpg C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140226_174437%5B1%5D.jpg

    C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140226_174557%5B1%5D.jpg C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140226_174605%5B1%5D.jpg

    C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140226_175358%5B1%5D.jpg C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140226_175407%5B1%5D.jpg

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by young 4 old pug View Post
    This assembly - may I ask from where you acquired it?

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    Ebay - abcturbo. 3 days from China to Australia. (Donning flame proof suit ready for the howl of protest about Chinese sourced parts)
    Last edited by wozzlegummich; 27th February 2014 at 09:12 AM.

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    After pulling the sump off and replacing the pickup I am amazed at the capacity of the sump - looks like it would hold no more than 3 litres! In a turbocharged diesel I really don't think that's enough in a hot climate like Australia. I know it has a small cooler but I'm wondering if a decent cooler up front would help in relation to Turbo longevity?

    Whilst on the subject of oil I've bought PENRITE 5W-40 Semi Synthetic diesel oil for the initial fill. That wont stay in there long as I'll do a oil/filter changed after the first couple of runs.... but - Is it really necessary to use the Total stuff?

    Can someone supply the oil spec for a 2006 HDI C4?

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    Get a copy of http://service.citroen.com/dtt/CDP/d...t2/t2_2006.zip. The engine type 3 letter code can be found in your VIN.

  13. #13
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    Basically you have done everything that I have done to my 320,000 km 307 1.6HDi in the last month....except I cleaned the pick up instead of replacing it while I'm still getting all the crud out of the lifters...

    I now have the issue where the correct specification oil is too thin resulting in top end rattle after driving for over 1.5 hours. So additive going into it tonight to thicken the oil until I get a new oil pump in from the UK. (Genuine is $604+ gst where I can get it landed here for $230). When that is replaced I'll do the cam belt, oil pick up in sump, lower injector seals and glow plugs. I'm aiming for another 300'000km out of this car at least so spending money on it now for its mid life rebuild is worth it.

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    Hi.

    They are a very interesting and revealing series of images. I assume that the images above with the sump removed are the oil return from the turbo into the sump? Therefore the oil leak was from the turbo centre housing flooding, due to the foreign matter blocking the mesh???

    My 2.0Lt HDI and many others that I have seen comments on this forum, observe engine oil downstream from the turbo compressor in the supply to the inlet manifold, plenum, and associated hose, intercooler etc. I wonder if the observed oil is a precurser of turbo problems?

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! young 4 old pug's Avatar
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    As for turbo longevity - my 307 wagon lasted up till 310'000km before it failed. It had a full service history as well. So theoretically after I get it all fixed up it will hopefully last another 300'000km.

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    Plus after I've got it back to near perfecr stock mechanical condition it will be used as a test bed for modifications at work with a series of custom engine maps (no dodgy tuning boxes that just turn up the fuel pressure by altering the rail pressure sensor). So it's gotta be right

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    Quote Originally Posted by young 4 old pug View Post
    ... top end rattle ....
    Maybe, add the timing chain and tensioner to the list while you have the injectors out. They do end up rattling, even in cars with a perfect service history.


    Quote Originally Posted by wozzlegummich View Post
    After pulling the sump off and replacing the pickup I am amazed at the capacity of the sump - looks like it would hold no more than 3 litres! In a turbocharged diesel I really don't think that's enough in a hot climate like Australia. I know it has a small cooler but I'm wondering if a decent cooler up front would help in relation to Turbo longevity?

    Whilst on the subject of oil I've bought PENRITE 5W-40 Semi Synthetic diesel oil for the initial fill. That wont stay in there long as I'll do a oil/filter changed after the first couple of runs.... but - Is it really necessary to use the Total stuff?

    Can someone supply the oil spec for a 2006 HDI C4?
    That sump doesn't seem to have the hard lumps of carbon caked everywhere you might have found.

    There was also a revised dipstick.

    If it's a manual it wouldn't have a particle filter, so it's not as critical. 5W40 or 5W30 are OK, but you need the low-SAPS (5W30) oil with the EGS for the sake of the particle filter. The service interval was revised down to 10K later on, which would be more critical with short run cars than country cars.
    Last edited by David S; 28th February 2014 at 01:07 AM.

  18. #18
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    OK here's the latest update. Refitted everything and took it for a drive. First time it came on boost I heard a loud "ZING" noise from turbo and lost boost. Nut had come loose on turbo shaft. Turbines contacted the housing and siezed. Moving forward replaced the entire turbo assembly. Took it for a drive and turbo now Ok and coming on boost no probs. BUT... the motor exhibiting signs of piston/ring blowby. Chuffing like a steam train out of the oil filler cap and blowing oil everywhere.

    Question - Could this be an injector seal leak somehow getting compression pressure into the crankcase? No external leakage from around the injectors themselves. Injectors were replaced recently (4K ago) by previous owner.

  19. #19
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Well, if the sleeve came loose could it allow gas up the outside of it and into the cover, in sufficient quantity?

    Had been wondering about the practicalities of testing compression on these motors, for an unrelated problem - all the glowplug adaptors available don't seem like they'd fit.

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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Well, if the sleeve came loose could it allow gas up the outside of it and into the cover, in sufficient quantity?
    Are the sleeves resealable or is it a head off/machine shop type job?

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    I don't know! They're not supposed to come out, and the injector removal/reseating tool manuals basically wash their hands of it, saying something like "if the sleeves come out with the injectors, they will need to be refitted". Helpful or what?

    The sole 1.6 I know of personally where one or more sleeves came loose, chuffed like Puffing Billy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Whippet View Post
    Hi.

    They are a very interesting and revealing series of images. I assume that the images above with the sump removed are the oil return from the turbo into the sump? Therefore the oil leak was from the turbo centre housing flooding, due to the foreign matter blocking the mesh???

    My 2.0Lt HDI and many others that I have seen comments on this forum, observe engine oil downstream from the turbo compressor in the supply to the inlet manifold, plenum, and associated hose, intercooler etc. I wonder if the observed oil is a precurser of turbo problems?
    Posted about this problem some time previously.
    On 2ltr two valve diesels the oil in the intake system usually comes from the crappy PVC valve. Pull the hose off from the rocker cover to intake system and start the engine, make sure you're not wearing a white shirt. There shouldn't be any globules of oil spurting around.

  23. #23
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    A picture tells a thousand stories!

    C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140323_145659.jpg C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140323_145709.jpg C4 1.6 HDI Turbo Rebuild - Pictures-20140323_145733.jpg
    Last edited by wozzlegummich; 17th April 2014 at 11:54 AM.

  24. #24
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    Well, that's received the Richard.

    Is the bore shagged as well?

  25. #25
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    No, bore is surprisingly in good shape. Will need a " lick" with a hone though.

    Sent using all 6.3 inches of my Samsung Galaxy Mega.

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