DS21 Pallas headlining renewal
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Thread: DS21 Pallas headlining renewal

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default DS21 Pallas headlining renewal

    Since I bought my DS a couple of years back the headlining has gradually detached itself from the rotted foam plastic backing. I made a temporary fix by holding it up with 2 transverse wires. But recently it has pulled out of the trim around the rear window and my wife did not appreciate being covered with bits of brown remnants of the foam backing. Time to act said I - well, she said. So I have removed the headlining fabric, scraped off the remains of the foam plastic backing and managed to remove the front part of the trim panel around the base of the roof.
    However I have not been able to remove the rear section, which tucks into the rear screen rubber. It seems to have a plastic backing, which I don't wish to damage. I have unclipped, with difficulty, the 2 front clips but can't get any further.
    Any info on the other fixings and how to remove will be appreciated.

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    Don
    Last edited by tresbon2; 16th February 2014 at 11:54 AM. Reason: spelling!
    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

  2. #2
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    Remove the rear seat - lift the cushion up to free the two plastic locating lugs at each corner and then remove the two setscrews/bolts at the bottom of the backrest, which has three tongues that slip into the front of the parcel shelf.

    Remove the C-pillar trims - one screw (remember most are Posidriv, not Philips) at the bottom and free the rear edge from the rubber and the clip at the top forward corner. These are available as repro parts if needed. Now is the time to either be shocked or surprised at the state of your seat belt mounts and c-pillars ... or to close your eyes.

    You need to remove the interior light lenses, but you've probably done this already. They are mostly now brittle.

    The rear trim section has two clips at each side and is located at the back by the rubber and by slipping over the leading edge of the rear window hoop. Plus it has to sit inside the stainless strip on either side of the roof rail. It has a rubber strip around the edge of the pressed metal, which is then covered in foam. The clips hold in fairly tightly and can snap if you force them, which would be a pain as they are riveted on. Look at the front section to see how you might best release them and also avoid cutting your fingers on the sharp prongs that hold the material.

    You can use any foam backed headliner you like, but a pre-cut and sewn kit is worth the small extra cost as someone else has already worked it out for you. The kit I acquired from Citroworld seemed too small, but once fitted, it's obviously cut that way to ensure it sits neatly. You shouldn't need any glue on the two pressed steel sections around the top of the roof rail.

    If you need to take the roof off, fitting the headliner with the roof removed and inverted makes the job easier. You have to then be very careful with the sealant when refitting the roof panel and taping clear plastic film on near the bolt holes will help keep it clean.

  3. #3
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    Thanks David. It is nice to know that there are only 2 more of those darn clips to remove. The 2 which I have so far removed were difficult, but at least I could get a tool in from the end. I think that I may have to make up a special tool to hold the rather springy fastener while I pull on the trim.

    I have a 5 piece headlining kit and do intend to remove the roof (17 bolt) and fit a new seal. I am expecting to find signs of corrosion behind the rear corners of the rear trim as they are very stained there and the C pillar trims were rotted away.

    BTW the external part of the rubber roof seal on the left side was in a very bad state when I got the car and had obviously been letting water in for a long time. I dug out a lot of corroded steel along that side and only later realised that it was the remains of the outside of the steel channel which is crimped to the roof base.
    Does anyone know if these channels are available?

    Don
    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

  4. #4
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    Expect to see a lot of corrosion in the centre of the top rail above the windscreen ... near the self tapping type screw that holds the ss trim on. The C pillars are also prone to tin worm and you might be wise to remove front and rear screens to fully access...both are bolt in jobs so not that difficult to remove.

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    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tresbon2 View Post
    Thanks David. It is nice to know that there are only 2 more of those darn clips to remove. The 2 which I have so far removed were difficult, but at least I could get a tool in from the end. I think that I may have to make up a special tool to hold the rather springy fastener while I pull on the trim.

    I have a 5 piece headlining kit and do intend to remove the roof (17 bolt) and fit a new seal. I am expecting to find signs of corrosion behind the rear corners of the rear trim as they are very stained there and the C pillar trims were rotted away.

    BTW the external part of the rubber roof seal on the left side was in a very bad state when I got the car and had obviously been letting water in for a long time. I dug out a lot of corroded steel along that side and only later realised that it was the remains of the outside of the steel channel which is crimped to the roof base.
    Does anyone know if these channels are available?

    Don
    If you track down the rubber extrusion please let us know where to get it.

    ScotFrog
    cresco750 likes this.

  6. #6
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tresbon2 View Post
    BTW the external part of the rubber roof seal on the left side was in a very bad state when I got the car and had obviously been letting water in for a long time. I dug out a lot of corroded steel along that side and only later realised that it was the remains of the outside of the steel channel which is crimped to the roof base.
    Does anyone know if these channels are available?

    Don
    Unfortunately I think you are either going to make them, or pull sections from a wreck.

    Quote Originally Posted by ScotFrog View Post
    If you track down the rubber extrusion please let us know where to get it.

    ScotFrog
    One of the better suppliers has turned out to be Sylvain1230_0 on Ebay France. I had a quick look on his store, he currently has a roof seal for a wagon. His stock rotates fairly quickly, so an email to him would be useful.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

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    I have now got the rear trim off. I had to make (by bending it to follow the roof profile) a tool from an old cheap spanner. I'm surprised at the lack of corrosion around the inside of the area behind the LH rear corner. It all looks like new but the h/lining and trim was quite stained at this point and the C pillar trims were both rotted away.
    My next problem is removing the screws(posidrive head?) which appear to be the only things holding the indicator light housing trumpets on. Mine are very rusted, probably including the thread protruding from the rear of the fixed nut, and immovable. I may have to drill the heads off and drill out the threaded part. I don't think that I can use an impact screwdriver for fear of breaking something.
    Don
    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotFrog View Post
    If you track down the rubber extrusion please let us know where to get it.

    ScotFrog
    I got a new seal with the car so am not sure of a supplier. I do think that I have seen them listed on at least one of the European suppliers websites.
    Don
    Citroen DS21 Pallas 1970 Renault 16TS 1976 Renault 5TS 1981

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    One of the better suppliers has turned out to be Sylvain1230_0 on Ebay France. I had a quick look on his store, he currently has a roof seal for a wagon. His stock rotates fairly quickly, so an email to him would be useful.


    Thanks HRE. I'll chase this up.

  10. #10
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    I think it was Franzose who listed the new c-pillar trims, but you could shape a lump of foam to suit and then glue it all together. Wurth sell a good spray glue. 3M had the go-to product, but they appear to have stopped importing it.
    You will likely find the folded metal captive nut retainers for the trumpets are rotten in any case. You may be ale to drill the head off and then salvage them, but repro parts are available. A bolt coated in anti-seize is an alternative. Note where the spring strip is for reassembly as it can be caught above the stainless surround and make it very difficult to remove the lamp unit in future.

  11. #11
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    I may have to drill the heads off and drill out the threaded part
    I have had great success with a B&D power file and a 40 grit belt.

    Just grind the head off the bolt. The power file is very maneuverable and makes quick work of bolt heads. I found the power file less likely slip and cause collateral damage than a drill. You can grind the diecast flat after removal making it easily to centre pop and drill

    Black Decker KA900E Powerfile? Belt Sander 240 Volt Powerfile Electric | eBay

    If you hunt around you should pay about $150.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotFrog View Post
    If you track down the rubber extrusion please let us know where to get it.

    ScotFrog
    I bought a rubber "seal" for a bonded roof DS from Roger Parker in Adelaide ( The Citroen DS Specialist | Roger Parker ) but ofcourse the sealing is done by the mastic/sikaflex whatever you use to re-fix the roof. If this roof is a bolt-down version then I don't know. What year did they change?

    I could not find a headlining material with sufficient foam backing for a Pallas so glued the material with Permatex headlining adhesive to a foam sheet, cut to size then glued into place in-situ. A 3M product I tried first was a failure but maybe I had the wrong specification.

    An experienced motor trimmer assured me it would be easier to fit with the roof on. In fact he refused to do the job with the roof off!
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  13. #13
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    I have done this job 3 times now, it was definitely easier with the roof off the car. I have always used the 3mm foam backed velour from VyFab in melbourne. They call it Dove Grey, but it is a much closer match that what is offered commercially via the various Citroen parts suppliers...... for a start it is actually velour, unlike the repro stuff on offer. Anyway, good luck, it's actually more forgiving than you think when it all gets refitted. Getting the grain of the fabric right is what can really muck it up, (buy 50% more than required), but if you use a velour closely approximating the original, the grain of the fabric is less of an issue.

    mb

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