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Thread: Latest c5 with am6 aisin warner tf-80sc gearbox.

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    Fellow Frogger! tasie C5's Avatar
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    Default Latest c5 with am6 aisin warner tf-80sc gearbox.

    My car is coming up for the 60,000km service. I looked at the service book and on page 19 it suggests an auto. Gearbox change at this service. The dealers service manager checked his service schedule and talked to various others in his organisation and there in no reference for a gearbox oil change on these cars in their service schedule.
    Anyone had an oil change done on the x7?. The makers specified oil is very expensive.
    Allan

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    Plenty of people have hanged the oil in an AM6 gearbox as it's been in use in the C5 range since 2005. Not a bad idea to change it, but check the cost of the factory oil before you instruct the dealer to change it.

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    Fellow Frogger! tasie C5's Avatar
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    Thanks David. Just checked the web for suitable oils. The best price for Penrite ATF FS is $40.00 for 4 litres. So not as expensive as I was told for the "genuine" OEM product. There seems to be a great deal of confusion around auto trans and their maintenance. Many manufacturers fit these gearboxes, some say change fluid at regular intervals others say sealed for life. My car is now out of warrantee, so I need to make sure I do the right thing re. the cars maintenance.
    Allan

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    The transmission is used in a range of vehicles - see AWTF-80 SC - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    The "genuine article" fluid is available from the dealers for the other cars also - the last time I looked into it Citroen and Peugeot dealers were the dearest to be found.

    There is a how-to at http://www.fichier-pdf.fr/2013/05/28...idange-bva.pdf

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    Had the fluid changed in mine at the 80k km service and it did make a difference. The 'box had become a little thumpy but after the change all was good. The car gets its 120k service next week.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Had the fluid changed in mine at the 80k km service and it did make a difference. The 'box had become a little thumpy but after the change all was good. The car gets its 120k service next week.
    Watch for the 'New Car' light about to illuminate! You are almost 1/3rd of the way to the moon.

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    Change oil yr already 40,000 km overdue
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    20,000 k between services for auto's-failing to do so is much more costly than the cost of the oil.

    Those who suggest 'no service' should have to put their money where their mouth is @ pay for the damage their mouth has caused!!

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Agreed, change the oil in your modern Auto (with synthetic ATF) every 20k or 2 years whichever comes sooner. On older autos halve the distance and time. Much cheaper and more fun than paying someone to rebuild the box.
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    1000+ Posts Ken W's Avatar
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    Hi Allan,

    I put 4 litres (two changes) of the Penrite oil through my AM6 about this time in 2013 (before we set off to Griffith) and it did make the gear changes smoother. The oil in there was pretty discoloured and the two changes seem to have cleared it up quite a bit. As Craig reports, changes did get a bit smoother. I went with Penrite rather than Nulon (which lists a greater range of compatibility) because I think the company has a better reputation.

    I think I will do this every 30,000 km or every second engine oil change just to keep the gearbox oil a bit fresher.

    Cheers,

    Ken W

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    I used to live in St Helens so I know you can't get decent gearbox service there. Would suggest you go to a transmission specialist in Launceston there are a few around possibly Kevin Ridler. I am sure you will get it done cheaper than your local dealer

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    Hi Ken W
    I am in the market for a C5 and was wondering if you have a recommendation for a good mechanic either Brissy or the Gold Coast (prefer the GC) but happy to travel for good service
    Regards
    Michael

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    Fellow Frogger! tasie C5's Avatar
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    I'm still doing a net search re. these autos. Volvo, Saab and Ford sites have useful info.
    There is talk of car makers "rebranding" fluids and then charging the earth for OEM fluid.
    As far as I can determine the OEM fluid manufacturer is Mobil with Mobil1 JWS 3309.
    A site says this NOT A DEXRON TYPE FLUID and a DEXRON spec. should not be used.
    This all adds to the confusion regarding this job.
    I have not found a site in au yet that sells JWS 3309. Has anyone purchased it locally?

    Allan

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    Quote Originally Posted by tasie C5 View Post
    I'm still doing a net search re. these autos. Volvo, Saab and Ford sites have useful info.
    There is talk of car makers "rebranding" fluids and then charging the earth for OEM fluid.
    As far as I can determine the OEM fluid manufacturer is Mobil with Mobil1 JWS 3309.
    A site says this NOT A DEXRON TYPE FLUID and a DEXRON spec. should not be used.
    This all adds to the confusion regarding this job.
    I have not found a site in au yet that sells JWS 3309. Has anyone purchased it locally?

    Allan


    Searching through AF will reveal your answer - Toyota Type IV ATF.


    Also, see here: ATF | Mobilô ATF 3309



    con...

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    Fellow Frogger! tasie C5's Avatar
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    I have located the Mobil AFT 3309 at the local Mobil distributor in Launceston. Twenty litres for $230.00. ( $11.50/ litre)
    The OEM fluid is much more than this, I suspect.
    The dealers service manager still recommends no change.

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    con
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    Quote Originally Posted by tasie C5 View Post
    I have located the Mobil AFT 3309 at the local Mobil distributor in Launceston. Twenty litres for $230.00. ( $11.50/ litre)
    The OEM fluid is much more than this, I suspect.
    The dealers service manager still recommends no change.

    This seller is a bit dearer (quarts not litres) but a smaller quantity -


    Mobil ATF 3309 Automatic Transmission Fluid 10 Quart Audi VW Toyota GM Ford | eBay


    Mobil ATF 3309 Automatic Transmission Fluid 10 Quart Audi VW Toyota GM Ford | eBay





    con...

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    Thanks for finding that seller - he has a "real" address in Sydney - GL Lubricants items - Get great deals on Mobil 1 Oil, Redline items on eBay Stores!

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    Do others have problems with rough down-changing of gears with the AM6? (changing up gears is very smooth). Have done 50k but have noticed it for some time now. It is probably worst when coasting towards lights, then accelerating. Also hard to drive smoothly around 30-40kph (say in school zone). Symptoms seem very similar to those at Jerky Shifting in xc60 (2011) 60K miles - normal? , which is probably not unusual given I think(?) Volvo use the same box. When I had a Citroen dealer look at it, the response was that it was behaving just like a "typical French gearbox". Given it is a Japanese box, needless to say I didn't get far. Anyone suggest someone in NSW who really understands the complexities of the transmission, or am I in the same boat as many of those Volvo owners?
    Last edited by turnbull151; 2nd August 2016 at 10:38 PM.

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    Hi turnbull151
    This is an old thread coming out from the dead. However my answer is still the same. All auto problems of shifting roughly or jerky etc should be addressed in the first instance by draining the oil, looking at it for colour, contamination, particles etc and then filling with new fresh good quality oil.
    That will solve most problems. If the contamination is heavy then do it again in 1000-2000 ks. Then ignore the silly recommendation of sealed for life and change it every 20-30000 ks.
    The oil type has been covered here on this thread, but do not spend silly money on overpriced "genuine" oil.
    Jaahn

    PS any auto transmission service place will tell you this !! No mystery, but the dealers seem to not know it.
    Last edited by jaahn; 3rd August 2016 at 09:07 AM.
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    Thanks Jaahn. Forgot to mention that it had an auto transmission service a few weeks ago and that seemed to make little difference. I think they reset the adaptives which gives only a very temporary improvement.
    Volvo blog (same transmission) mentions things like solenoids, software updates, adaptives etc. That said, I think I might be heading to the same point as one of those in that thread, when they say "We have a 2013 XC60 and have experienced the same issue with the shifting, but only when changing from approaching a stop to acceleration, the car clunks into gear. The dealer updated the software three times and we even insisted that a senior technician from head office come and drive the vehicle. The result was, yes he could detect the clunking, but this is a "trait" of the T6 and Volvo does not have a fix". They are also taking their case to Sweden; would be like me taking mine to France - good luck! So much for Aisin boxes.
    Have driven a large number of automatics over 45+ years but not experienced one as crude in operation as this one. If only they kept it simple!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Latest c5 with am6 aisin warner tf-80sc gearbox.-vovlo.jpg  
    Last edited by turnbull151; 3rd August 2016 at 06:36 PM.

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    No substitute for a manual box! Any "trait" will be the responsibility of the operator!

    JAJEA

    Quote Originally Posted by turnbull151 View Post
    Thanks Jaahn. Forgot to mention that it had an auto transmission service a few weeks ago and that seemed to make little difference. I think they reset the adaptives which gives only a very temporary improvement.
    Volvo blog (same transmission) mentions things like solenoids, software updates, adaptives etc. That said, I think I might be heading to the same point as one of those in that thread, when they say "We have a 2013 XC60 and have experienced the same issue with the shifting, but only when changing from approaching a stop to acceleration, the car clunks into gear. The dealer updated the software three times and we even insisted that a senior technician from head office come and drive the vehicle. The result was, yes he could detect the clunking, but this is a "trait" of the T6 and Volvo does not have a fix". They are also taking their case to Sweden; would be like me taking mine to France - good luck! So much for Aisin boxes.
    Have driven a large number of automatics over 45+ years but not experienced one as crude in operation as this one. If only they kept it simple!

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    approaching a stop to acceleration
    If you allow the car to coast slowly with no accelerator pedal the transmission will select neutral. The turbo may be producing nothing as well. Pressing the pedal then produces a laggy result.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JAJEA View Post
    No substitute for a manual box! Any "trait" will be the responsibility of the operator!

    JAJEA
    As we progress towards driverless cars, I don't know that punching gears will be always be an option?

    Agree, "traits" become operator's responsibility - to help others make the best informed decisions though, it is incumbent upon us owners to fully enlighten them as to a car's "traits".

    Guess it comes more of a surprise when we are buying $60k cars (Volvos, Cits) that they can come with such fundamentally flawed "traits"? Or are we being unfair in that the problems are possibly not being diagnosed correctly?

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    Are you sure this trait isn't the intentional change from neutral to first while moving? It isn't a noisy clunk, but you can feel it.

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by seasink View Post
    If you allow the car to coast slowly with no accelerator pedal the transmission will select neutral. The turbo may be producing nothing as well. Pressing the pedal then produces a laggy result.
    I don't think any box would select neutral when on the move. Not good for the box and not legal. The same issue happens on AL4 boxes and I would assume all fuzzy logic controlled gearboxes. As you are coasting the box is in one mode and then you open the throttle, the computer decides we need to, change mode, change gear, sometimes with the lockup clutch engaged with the obvious result. Changing oil is the first step but also learn to drive the box. Our Xantia used to do this but it doesn't do it now. Most likely reason is we have learned to drive it in a way that doesn't trigger it. Open the throttle smoother and slower is one way. Just like in a manual box the driver has some responsibility in smooth operation of the box.
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