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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Icon5 C5 tows DS

    Hi everyone,
    I can't find good information on the prospects of towing a DS with a C5 (on car trailer) 200 kilometres. All freeway no real hills up or down.
    The trailer hire stipulates carrying weights and the DS is just on the limit. References to C5 (2002HDI automatic) suggest that this load is maybe over the tow weight. I'm prepared to give it a go (the alternative is $600 on a flat bed truck).
    The C5 gearbox and engine is good, very good and the towbar is Citroen original equipment with long reinforcing links forward to almost back axle position.
    Trailer hire cost is $134 plus my time for 2 hour trip.

    Secondly, the target DS23 has an odd arrangement under the bonnet to do with the alternator. A substantial heatsink, heavy diodes and toggle switch and the dashboard has 2 odd warning lights I've never seen before.
    C5 tows DS-lightsquery.jpg
    The orange LED stays on but the red, which comes on after starting, slowly extinguishes. Some kind of primitive voltmeter?

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  2. #2
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    lets see ... DS ~~ 1.4tons, rental trailer 1.2tons ... that's 2.6tons with a car that can legally tow 1.2 ( ?? ) tons with 60kg on the drawbar.

    Yep, I reckon you won't have a problem at all. It'll do it easily

    Any rental car trailer carrying a car is actually illegal. They are allowed 2tons all up ... Guess what the trailer weighs at least 1.2tons (wth ramps, spare, winch ... all that chequer plate). So you can legally carry 800kg on it

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 6th February 2014 at 02:23 PM.
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    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Hmmm. Thanks Shane, wondered about that. I said I was prepared to give it a go but just maybe, not a good idea. Makes you wonder about all the Ford station wagons towing double horse floats though. 1.5 tonne trailer plus a tonne of (usually dynamic) horseflesh. And I've no doubt that if it turned nasty the small print would come into its own..


    Anyone know a good tow operator I can afford (200K) although the car is driveable and I could possibly apply for an unregistered car permit.....

    Still looking for good advice here.

    ScotFrog

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    2002Hdi 2.0 litre - well ours is 2003 and it can tow 1500 with 75 kg on ball so i suspect yours is the same. Personally I would not do it. No coverage by insurance if you do and something goes wrong
    Oh and if your trailer plus load is over 2000 kg you will need electric brakes (override only legal up to 2000kg) and a brakeaway switch to keep brakes on van for at least 15(or is it 30) mins if detached so will need a battery on trailer. Oh and monitor for battery charge visible in drivers seating position if in NSW.
    Yeah lots of stuff.
    I have towed our lightweight Euro caravan with ours (1500 kg max) and it can do that but there is not much left in reserve in the power dept. made a stable tow though. I would not try any more than that though, i doubt it would have the torque, let alone not being legal.
    Peter
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  5. #5
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    It's far from legal... Having said that I've towed DS's and CX's on trailers countless times with a CX and it does it easy ... Power ?? Who cares, your not going to be towing that sort of load at > 80km/h.

    Why don't you stop at your local primary school and see if one of the mothers dropping of her one child will lend you her 3ton land cruiser while her kid is at school (the easiest place in the world to find a scores of 4wd's after all is the local primary school carpark ).

    Where's your sense of adventure .... If it runs, grab a permit and drive it It's only 2hours away. Worst case, it breaks down (you did take out RACV assist on it right ) and you claim your free tow home....

    Where abouts is the DS located. Maybe someone local can give you a hand getting it ready for the trip home ?

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Default Scaremongering !!!!

    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    I'd think $600 will seem like small change compared to the resulting AL4 rebuild ...
    If it's roadworthy, consider a permit or look for another freight quote. $600 should take a car quite a long way, but most commercial car carriers will not be familiar with a DS and how to handle it to avoid damage.
    Hi Scotfrog and the other profett's of doom
    I have and do tow cars on my own car trailer with my C5 auto petrol. In NSW its quite legal too !! I also have towed a 16ft caravan.

    THe auto will not fail because of towing but because of faulty valves or software or silly recommendations on service from the dickheads at Citroen. So if it is going OK its OK despite what David S threatens

    Common sense should rule and towing with a truck is probably the failsafe option. However in the "good old days" when no one had a 4WD we all towed with cars which were a lot less suitable than a C5. However you could hire a cheap ute with a towbar for half a day for a reasonable amount probably.

    jaahn
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    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    Yes, in many ways that might be the simplest option, or a heavy duty van like a Trainspotter. I've towed an honest 2 tonnes with the Xantia/AL4 but it's hard on the wishbone bushes among other things.

    The most important detail is, if the airbag light's on - YOU MIGHT BE DOOMED.

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi Scotfrog and the other profett's of doom
    I have and do tow cars on my own car trailer with my C5 auto petrol. In NSW its quite legal too !! I also have towed a 16ft caravan.

    THe auto will not fail because of towing but because of faulty valves or software or silly recommendations on service from the dickheads at Citroen. So if it is going OK its OK despite what David S threatens

    Common sense should rule and towing with a truck is probably the failsafe option. However in the "good old days" when no one had a 4WD we all towed with cars which were a lot less suitable than a C5. However you could hire a cheap ute with a towbar for half a day for a reasonable amount probably.

    jaahn
    .
    Um ... hows it legal too tow something that weighs well over 2.5++ tons with something that can tow legally 1.6tons (actually that's good for a french car ).
    http://www.barbagallo.com.au/uploads...5-brochure.pdf

    The biggest issue is 60kg on the tongue .... No car trailer in history is only going to apply 60kg on the tongue unless you like being upside down on the side of the road.

    Sure it'll probably tow it well.... Legally, definitely not.

    Every middle aged women seems to have a 3ton wank tank there days ... it's probably easiest to try and borrow one of these from one

    seeya,
    shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    Yes, in many ways that might be the simplest option, or a heavy duty van like a Trainspotter. I've towed an honest 2 tonnes with the Xantia/AL4 but it's hard on the wishbone bushes among other things.

    The most important detail is, if the airbag light's on - YOU MIGHT BE DOOMED.
    I towed an Viscount ultralight caravan with the 8valve automatic Xantia to Geelong and back.... and decided "Never Again". I felt like I was flogging the poor thing too death.... wwwwwaaaaaaaaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy to gutless to tow with. I imagine the 2litre diesel would be light years ahead for towing ability! That was a legal load for it too

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

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    Hmmm middle aged woman with wank tank! I wonder if any of these lovely forthcoming Citroen Widows who were soooooo generous have one of these?

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    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Any thoughts on my two odd LEDs? See first post this thread.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotFrog View Post
    Hi everyone,
    I can't find good information on the prospects of towing a DS with a C5 (on car trailer) 200 kilometres. All freeway no real hills up or down.
    The trailer hire stipulates carrying weights and the DS is just on the limit. References to C5 (2002HDI automatic) suggest that this load is maybe over the tow weight. I'm prepared to give it a go (the alternative is $600 on a flat bed truck).
    The C5 gearbox and engine is good, very good and the towbar is Citroen original equipment with long reinforcing links forward to almost back axle position.
    Trailer hire cost is $134 plus my time for 2 hour trip.

    Secondly, the target DS23 has an odd arrangement under the bonnet to do with the alternator. A substantial heatsink, heavy diodes and toggle switch and the dashboard has 2 odd warning lights I've never seen before.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	Lightsquery.jpg 
Views:	415 
Size:	38.7 KB 
ID:	52804
    The orange LED stays on but the red, which comes on after starting, slowly extinguishes. Some kind of primitive voltmeter?

    Scotfrog
    Are you in Elphinstone, near Castlemaine, on the Calder?
    If so I may be able to help.
    roger

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! ScotFrog's Avatar
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    Sure am. Moved in two weekends ago. And now have a 25' x 25' shed. Empty. Crying out for the D restoration. Are you in Castlemaine. I head in there for shopping tomorrow.

    Scotfrog

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    Quote Originally Posted by ScotFrog View Post
    Sure am. Moved in two weekends ago. And now have a 25' x 25' shed. Empty. Crying out for the D restoration. Are you in Castlemaine. I head in there for shopping tomorrow.

    Scotfrog
    OK. Sending PM.
    roger

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Um ... hows it legal too tow something that weighs well over 2.5++ tons with something that can tow legally 1.6tons (actually that's good for a french car ).
    http://www.barbagallo.com.au/uploads...5-brochure.pdf
    The biggest issue is 60kg on the tongue .... No car trailer in history is only going to apply 60kg on the tongue unless you like being upside down on the side of the road.
    Sure it'll probably tow it well.... Legally, definitely not.
    Every middle aged women seems to have a 3ton wank tank there days ... it's probably easiest to try and borrow one of these from one
    seeya,
    shane L.
    Well Shane
    Here's the drum. My car trailer is a single axle and weighs allmost nothing So your assumption of the 2.5 +++++ tons is BS. I gave up on the crap hire trailers after one lost a wheel on the highway.

    The ball weight is solved by assist bars which make all the difference and careful weight position. I am happy with the tow bar as I made it myself.

    I have no friends with 3ton wank tanks, as it happens
    jaahn

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    It'll be fine! I towed a v6 406 home over about 120 kms behind a v6 406 and she still sat on 110 kms up the Calder. Although it wasn't a hire trailer this one only weighs about 700 kilos. Must have looked funny being over taken by two red peugeots! Only problem I have with towing with it is the bum sits low with weight on it. But you won't have that problem!

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Well Shane
    Here's the drum. My car trailer is a single axle and weighs allmost nothing So your assumption of the 2.5 +++++ tons is BS. I gave up on the crap hire trailers after one lost a wheel on the highway.

    The ball weight is solved by assist bars which make all the difference and careful weight position. I am happy with the tow bar as I made it myself.

    I have no friends with 3ton wank tanks, as it happens
    jaahn
    2cv only trailer ?? there's no way you can carry a DS on a single axle trailer. For safe towing you need 10% of the towed weight on your drawbar.... The lightest car trailers out there would be 700kg with spare, winch and ramps. + 1.4ton of DS == 2.1 tons. So you should have 210kg on the tongue to keep it safe.

    The idea of someone wobbling down the road with a massivly overloaded single axle trailer with 60kg on the tongue scares the absolute shit out of me. I hope your never on the roads at the same time as me or my family.

    The obvious answer is you massively overload the tongue of the car to try and get some weight forward. That's what I've always done.

    To get around this issue I tow with the old range rover now. 4ton legal towing capacity, shitloads of towbar downforce legally allowed (they also have a boge load leveler ... basically a hydraulic ram that lifts the @rse end back upto the correct height).

    If lhs2.1 is going to help him out, he'll be fine. He's well experienced at moving DS's around.

    seeya
    Shane L
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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    A final pearl for NSW, which may prove instructive for some ...
    http://www.rms.nsw.gov.au/registrati...ngtrailers.pdf
    I'd guess there is something similar for Victoria.

    For the purpose of calculations, the DS has a kerb weight of almost 1,300kg and the Safari is almost 1,400kg. The earlier C5 has a kerb weight of something like 1500kg+, depending on specification.
    Last edited by David S; 7th February 2014 at 04:14 PM.

  19. #19
    UFO
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    So, the general advice here is to NOT tow a DS on a trailer with a C5 - worthwhile advice I think. It can also be considered "Sharing the knowledge"
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    bas
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    Late response but I'll post it anyway. Back in the days (about 13 years ago now) I owned a nice Blue DS and a Renault 19, while I was living in Holland. At one point the gearbox failed on the DS so I had to get it from my parents place to my girlfriends place (120km apart). At the time, the DS was stored at my local Citroen garage and they diagnosed the gearbox failure and tried to have it fixed. Anyway, they offered me their car trailer and an XM 2.1TD to tow the trailer for free.

    On the day I was picking it up, the XM had broken down in the morning so instead they could only give me a 1995 manual Xantia 2.0 petrol with 250,000 km on the odo to tow the trailer with the DS on it. I had no other choice but to go ahead and take it so off I went. With the weight of the trailer (600 KG) and the DS (1,400 KG) I had 2,000 KG behind the Xantia.

    I could have the clutch up completely in first gear and the car wouldn't move. I got it going using a lot of clutch slip (and clutch smell..). Maximum speed I could achieve was around 80km/hour, which was the limit with a trailer anyway in Holland back then. Most of the trip was freeway so that was my luck and remember that Holland doesn't have any hills.... The trip itself wasn't too bad so while on the freeway I could enjoy the scenerey and a nice cigar.

    The worst thing though wasn't the clutch or speed issue, it was slowing down. Xantias aren't designed to stop their own weight + another 2,000 KG!! It would take me a few hundred metres to stop. I was glad when I had reached my destination, could offload the DS and drive back with just the trailer.

    So are C5's any better? I would hope so but if I had to do it today, I would take my Landcruiser which is a lot better equipped for the job.

    My 2 cents on "sharing the knowledge".
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    Quote Originally Posted by bas View Post
    Late response but I'll post it anyway. Back in the days (about 13 years ago now) I owned a nice Blue DS and a Renault 19, while I was living in Holland. At one point the gearbox failed on the DS so I had to get it from my parents place to my girlfriends place (120km apart). At the time, the DS was stored at my local Citroen garage and they diagnosed the gearbox failure and tried to have it fixed. Anyway, they offered me their car trailer and an XM 2.1TD to tow the trailer for free.

    On the day I was picking it up, the XM had broken down in the morning so instead they could only give me a 1995 manual Xantia 2.0 petrol with 250,000 km on the odo to tow the trailer with the DS on it. I had no other choice but to go ahead and take it so off I went. With the weight of the trailer (600 KG) and the DS (1,400 KG) I had 2,000 KG behind the Xantia.

    I could have the clutch up completely in first gear and the car wouldn't move. I got it going using a lot of clutch slip (and clutch smell..). Maximum speed I could achieve was around 80km/hour, which was the limit with a trailer anyway in Holland back then. Most of the trip was freeway so that was my luck and remember that Holland doesn't have any hills.... The trip itself wasn't too bad so while on the freeway I could enjoy the scenerey and a nice cigar.

    The worst thing though wasn't the clutch or speed issue, it was slowing down. Xantias aren't designed to stop their own weight + another 2,000 KG!! It would take me a few hundred metres to stop. I was glad when I had reached my destination, could offload the DS and drive back with just the trailer.

    So are C5's any better? I would hope so but if I had to do it today, I would take my Landcruiser which is a lot better equipped for the job.

    My 2 cents on "sharing the knowledge".
    All good advice and I had already heeded it.
    The final clincher for me was the thought of stopping a loaded tandem in a hurry. Quite apart from the damage to the car's hardware which could ensue, an emergency stop just gave me the feeling that it might not stop.
    I managed to find a transporter who has moved D's before to pick up and deliver over the weekend 197 Ks for $330.00 so think it's the best option.
    All good.
    UFO likes this.

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    ah, so no heroics then. good luck with that, and do let us all know when the DS
    is safely at your place so's we can find something else to worry about.
    (like the pall of smoke here at the moment)

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    Yeah I'm watching that one on the FireReady App. It's 12.6K NW of us. Fortunately I'm not at home but I'm watching it. A blustery hot northerly is NOT on my wish list. You must be sweating on that one just now so why are you browsing the Aussiefrog site?

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    well aussiefrogs cools and refreshes you know. but we have our eye on it.
    fortunately we're in north west Barkers, and the wind - touch wood - stays benign.

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    so its in the pines?

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