Our suspension.
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! tasie C5's Avatar
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    Default Our suspension.

    The Citroen suspension is the reason I chose the car.
    Most on this forum are here because of the unique suspension on our vehicles. Some , like me use the car as a main means of transport, it fulfils all my current requirements. My journeys are in the main, on country roads.
    I have driven and owned cars of many makes for over 50 years.
    I am not a person, of a similar age to me, ( who unfortunately I know) who wants all drivers to do as they do and whinge about all others driving habits instead of examining their own poor driving styles.

    I have owned a C5 for 10 years

    If the company does away with this system I will have a much more difficult decision on a replacement.

    I did post a reply on this forum that suggested that if a high profile ( in the media ) car maker suddenly came up with a smooth riding, self adjusting, hydro/pneumatic suspension in the current market, they would exploit it to the max.
    Citroen does nothing to exploit this advantage.

    Are we, as a group who has appreciated this sublime suspension making representation to PSA for them to keep it.????
    Allan

    Allan.

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  2. #2
    JBN
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    Do you think for a moment that the French would listen to Australians?

    I feel the same way as you do about hydraulic Citroens. I am biased to the single system hydraulics as last seen on the Xantia.

    My problem is extrapolating my life expectancy onto the age of my Xantia and working out which is going to cark it first. Its getting to the stage that if I have a major problem with the Xantia, I get that fixed and then subject myself to a medical examination.

    So far, so good.

    John

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Yes

    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Do you think for a moment that the French would listen to Australians?

    I feel the same way as you do about hydraulic Citroens. I am biased to the single system hydraulics as last seen on the Xantia.

    My problem is extrapolating my life expectancy onto the age of my Xantia and working out which is going to cark it first. Its getting to the stage that if I have a major problem with the Xantia, I get that fixed and then subject myself to a medical examination.

    So far, so good.

    John
    Isnt the Xantia fastest in the Moose test, well amazing Citroen and well done

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! tasie C5's Avatar
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    As far as I am aware the French don't listen to anyone.

    The only possible reason for them to retain the system would be a a perceived blow to their national pride.

    If some other country claimed a similar system as their own the French may consider this as an affront and continue to make "different" cars .

  5. #5
    UFO
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    Europeans don't need to care about soft rides any more. Most of their driving when not stuck in traffic jams is on excellent quality motorways.

    As for protests from Australia. The total sales of Citroens in Australia amounts to less than one day's production of Citroens in PSA factories. We are tiny fish in an Olympic sized pool.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    May be my experience is different than yours having spent personal time speaking to Roland Peugeot albeit many years ago.

    Sadly [as I may have mentioned previously[that due to a 'mountain' of personal tragedies] I was unable to follow through with Roland's continual requests to myself.Truly a hugely humble Gentleman.

    I think it is a matter of reaching the right person in the right place-a little bit like getting the timing right on a car when you do not know what you are doing.I have seen MAJOR changes in Business,Governments etc. as a result of a letter or phone call.

    If you think you cannot make a difference maybe look @ the way a mosquito can move you.

    Haveagocause you will neverneverno unless you neverhaveago!

  7. #7
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Europeans don't need to care about soft rides any more. Most of their driving when not stuck in traffic jams is on excellent quality motorways.

    As for protests from Australia. The total sales of Citroens in Australia amounts to less than one day's production of Citroens in PSA factories. We are tiny fish in an Olympic sized pool.
    That plus cost of course. I've driven fast in a Xsara Picasso on France and found it pretty lumpy even on those autoroutes. But most people don't know better and you do need to look at the commercial situation - dire for PSA. There were 15 million cars sold in China last year..... Mostly those cars will travel on roads clogged like parking lots with odd bursts of speed. Comfortable seats, AC and various electronic fruit, with really good reliability, is what they want.

    Every time I drive even the Xantia in Perth and watch BMW, Audi, Benz models that cost vastly more etc jiggling up and down I shake my head. They just don't know any better. The Peugeot 508 I was in recently was as bad as any I've experienced what is more.

    I think we are whistling in the wind regarding hydropneumatics on future Citroens. Unfortunately. And my relationship with my Xantia is a bit the same as John's. Based on distance driven, it has about another 60 years in it.... Up to 85,000 km this year.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    My personal attempts to communicate such thoughts to PSA have fallen of deaf ears and I am a pretty good persuasive writer.
    They do not care.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    I also think any such request is a lost cause.
    If you read my posts you'll know that in my 30 years of Citroen ownership I've been one of those heretics who has bought and driven modern non-hydraulically suspended Cits as my daily driver for over a decade. It's not that I don't know any better, or that I think a hydraulic Citroen will be more expensive to run, it's that for my normal daily car use I don't have to have one. My commute is mainly spent sitting at red lights, and whilst it can be entertaining having your hydra Cit self-level whilst you sit there, there's little point contemplating suspension characteristics at such times. I'm more concerned about having a car that is fuel efficient whilst also able to win the traffic-light Grand Prix (so I can hopefully travel at the speed which will secure me the next light as green rather than the red it will be if I rely on the commuting speed of others), and something I can park in the smallest of spots. My daily motoring is much like most city dwellers, who still buy the majority of cars. The only time on my daily commute that I regret not being at the wheel of a hydraulic Cit is one particularly bumpy street I use after peak hours which I'd not noticed as being particularly bad until I got the DS3 (even the Xsara coped with it reasonably), where I now zig-zag amongst the manhole covers trying to manually level the ride.

    I'm on holidays at the moment, so I've spent the last 10 days touring (bitumen and dirt) Tasmania in my Xantia SX. It's a brilliant tourer, mainly due to the suspension, and many of the roads are in very good condition, but I'd assume manufacturers see this sort of driving as a niche market rather than the norm. Is that niche market most likely to chose a 4 / 5 door touring sedan? If you're concerned about satisfying the Australian market, think about what you see them driving. Talk to most Australians and they'd be like the local who told me a decent gravel road was probably best tackled in a 4wd as it may not have been graded lately. Would we all rush out and buy a hydraulically-suspended 4wd Citroen tourer (think C4 Aircross or bigger) if they decided this was the best way to fit the niche and satisfy their manufacturing need for volume, and thus the only hydraulically-suspended option in a Citroen range? Some would, but would enough?


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  10. #10
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    I'm still learning all about the hydraulics and how to work on them (obviously due to some of my previous posts I'm in my early 40's so a late mechanical starter. The danger is the skilled Citroen mechanics have or are rapidly reaching retirement age (or the big DS garage in the Sky) as a result this forum has become a very valuable resource and I'm very grateful to the "Brains Trust" of fellow froggers! In this time of "Crowd Sourcing funding" maybe we could buy the patents or rights to the now unused old or current
    'olťopneumatique' suspensions?

    There are some very clever authors on here. Who would like write the letter to ask PSA if their hydropneumatic suspension is for sale:
    C'est combien, s'il vous plaÓt? It could be an entertaining endeavour to share on the forum and hopefully PSA may state their intentions?


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  11. #11
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    Like others here the hydropneuematic suspension and "a driver's car" tag are reasons enough for having Citroens since 1983. That is also why we still have a D special, BX valver and an Xantia CT. I started to get disillusioned when the C5 diesel was not offered with a real gearbox.
    We looked elsewhere for our most recent purchase a Renaultsport Clio 200 cup (a definitive driver's car IMO).

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    Quote Originally Posted by daffyduck View Post
    My personal attempts to communicate such thoughts to PSA have fallen of deaf ears and I am a pretty good persuasive writer.
    They do not care.
    Personally,my opinion is that -well to put it nicely -they have been invade by people who have no idea -maybe,just maybe, things have changed with quality control from the 508 on.
    Appears to me that the 'Family' members have been pushed sideways?

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger! Boyracer's Avatar
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    We may need to transfer our allegiance...

    NEW 2014 Mercedes S-Class MAGIC BODY CONTROL - YouTube
    Cheers,
    Michael

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  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    Well if it is good enough for the military:
    http://kinetics.ca/products/newHydropneumatics.html




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  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    Here is the future. http://www.iaeng.org/publication/WCE...p1889-1892.pdf

    I have always been keen to see what would happen to the Bose developed suspension systems. (Inspired by his fathers Citroen DS & late '50's Air ride Cadillac) It's controlled in a similar way to noise cancelling head phones. No doubt many of you would have seen the YouTube videos in the past. Yet all they market is a truck seat so far. Many other auto makers are continuing to develop hi tech systems. Maybe CitroŽn's field of diamonds? If they remained the leader they could have saved the entire PSA group?


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  16. #16
    JBN
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    I think it is far too late for the PSA group to take on this sort of challenge. Citroen's best and brightest left long ago, when Peugeot took over.

    If PSA last long enough, maybe a rebadged Nissan might provide what they once had, many moons ago.

    John

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    Another clip about Mercedes....

    http://youtu.be/Df2mM5jP1W0

    Hydraulics in the suspension.... Who would have thought! I fear Boyracer could be right.


    Paul in Canberra

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  18. #18
    UFO
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    Quote Originally Posted by pajamas View Post
    Another clip about Mercedes....

    Mercedes-Benz Active Body Control -- Fully Active Suspension Technology - YouTube

    Hydraulics in the suspension.... Who would have thought! I fear Boyracer could be right.
    The narrator said "shtrut". All comments he made are null and void!
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  19. #19
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    This is the scenario:

    Whilst Citroen used it for 60 years on small and medium to large cars and is about to abandon it, Mercedes Benz will take it on and Gor blimey it will all of a sudden become all the rage!
    We'll see Mercs riding over bump like Dee's used too and everybody will be gasping in amazement. It's German quality you know...it must be good.
    Then BMW's and Audis will follow suit
    It's only a matter of time till Toyota and Nissan adapt it to their cars once Mercedes cracks it, and then to be followed by Kia, Mitsubishi, Samyong and why not...even available on the next Commodore made for Australia, but not in Australia .

    At the same time Citroen will present its new C5, with huh....4 coil springs duh!

    Quote Originally Posted by pajamas View Post
    Another clip about Mercedes....

    Mercedes-Benz Active Body Control -- Fully Active Suspension Technology - YouTube

    Hydraulics in the suspension.... Who would have thought! I fear Boyracer could be right.
    Last edited by harrisson_citroen; 31st December 2013 at 07:59 PM.
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! Boyracer's Avatar
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    These days most modern cars ride like pedal cars. It almost seems like car makers didn't think ride mattered and I suppose Citroen probably wondered why they were so far down a path that no one appeared to be interested in following.

    I'm happy to see MB evolve their 'revolutionary' concept. It may even encourage our beloved Citroen to stay with the original program!
    Cheers,
    Michael

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  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger! tasie C5's Avatar
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    My sentiments Boyracer.
    What on earth are Citroen( PSA )thinking about when the norm has NO exceptional attributes to appeal to the likes of us? All current cars are clones of each other. Components are sourced from the same suppliers the ride and features are common to all. Are we being manipulated by the universal desire to be " THE SAME "???
    Our vehicles cost the same as a Mitsubishi ute. They, have the gismos that seem to appeal to the masses i.e.Phone connectivity, iPod function. etc, etc.
    But it's a UTE!!!!
    Last edited by tasie C5; 1st January 2014 at 12:00 AM.

  22. #22
    JBN
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    The French were runners up at Waterloo for not fully appreciating the changing times.

    They were frigging around with condoms, when wellingtons were the rage.

    John

  23. #23
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    Default Taken for granted- self levelling

    Just bought a Clio 200 cup and love the way it handles, goes (and rides) like a true 21st C thoroughbred hot hatch . It has lots of gadgets (extra equipment) including a headlights adjustment knob to compensate for load. Never needed one of those in our hydro- Cits.
    Today, I got reminded why when sitting in the back seat of our Xantia CT. It instantly levelled with a gentle rear rise. Self levelling suspension so the ride/handling is constant regardless of load. Now there's an idea! Surely a bigger selling/safety extra compared with manual headlight's adjustment or more cup holders? Perhaps not?

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