New Citroen Owner - Gearbox and timing belt advice
  • Register
  • Help
Results 1 to 24 of 24
Like Tree2Likes
  • 1 Post By addo
  • 1 Post By garethb

Thread: New Citroen Owner - Gearbox and timing belt advice

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    153

    Default New Citroen Owner - Gearbox and timing belt advice

    Hi,
    I've been trawling through these forums and have noticed some of the issues I notice spoken about here. I've just come to own a 2003 C5 (coming from a 1996 camry I feel like I'm in a Bently!). A few questions that I couldn't get a straight answer on while looking through the forums so wondering if someone could clear some things up for me.

    1. Gearbox oil - I've read that the only oil to use is the Mobil stuff, but then read that they've discontinued it. Some people have said the Pentex can be used as a good replacement. But then they didn't follow up so not sure if their gearbox has blown up or what? So whats the general consensus here, can I use the Pentex to filter out the crud oil or stick to the Mobil. Since they've discontinued it, where can I get some from?

    2. The car has just gone over the 100k so looking at a timing belt change. I also got a copy of the service manual and feel comfortable doing this myself (with the help of a friend in his shop). I was looking at a Timing Belt, Water filter kit on Ebay from a UK supplier (Citroen C5 Xsara Synergie Berlingo Dispatch 2 0 HDI Timing Belt Water Pump KIT | eBay). Has anyone had any experience with this OR does anyone know a supplier in Aus I can source the parts from for a similar price. Don't mind paying a little more for local stock.

    Advertisement


    3. I also need a shifting pin for the auto gear box (I think thats what its called), part number #0000240778, anyone know a place around the Gold Coast I can order this?

    4. The interior has gone a bit sticky on the inside. Best way to clean it off?

    Thanks for any help/tips!

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    8,589

    Default

    WElcome to the club (or is it the dark side?). For all sorts of mechanical parts try EAI in Melbourne or Sydney and have your VIN ready. EAI: European Auto Imports

    Your link is for the 2.0 diesel, is that your motor?

  3. #3
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    Don't wind it backwards.

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    153

    Default

    Sorry, must have linked the wrong one. There was a petrol 1.8 on there somewhere form that same supplier. I'll try EAI, tahnks for the tip.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! Clogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Sydney 2087
    Posts
    189

    Default

    Von Bibra of 65 Ferry Road, Southport, 5561 6161 is the Gold Coast's CitroŽn dealer now and should be able to sell you 240778.

    They will also sell you the original transmission oil.
    I've had Penrite oil in the gearbox for over three years and 40 000 km, and it's still going perfectly well.
    We're just back from a 500 km trip to and from Sussex Inlet, and the AL4 made beautiful up- and downshifts on the steep and fast freeway south of Sydney.
    Last edited by Clogzz; 15th November 2013 at 07:51 PM.
    2003 C5 2.0i AL4 205,000 km 76372389

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    171

    Default

    Hi Folks
    Which Penrite oil is that, and how much of it do you need to do the drain, refill drive, drain and refill routine. Lookimg to replace the oil in my 2003 C5 2.0 HDi.
    Thanks Peter


    Via the aussiefrogs App
    Peter
    1950 11BL
    1970 AZUA "La Poste" van
    1986 2CV Dolly (red and white)
    2004 C5 HDi silver 2.0L

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! Clogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Sydney 2087
    Posts
    189

    Default

    That oil is called Penrite BMV:

    Penrite Oil - A Better Class Of Oil

    Drain and refill is three litres at a time, so two refills take six litres.
    2003 C5 2.0i AL4 205,000 km 76372389

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts
    Join Date
    Jun 2013
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    8,589

    Default

    If you haven't done so, search service.citroen.com for carnets de poche. Find the C5 nearest your year, which will be in French at least, and if you are lucky there will be an English translation (change langue d'afficharge). They are data sheets for mechanics.

  9. #9
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    May 2013
    Location
    Adelaide
    Posts
    171

    Default

    Thanks for that
    Much appreciated
    Peter


    Via the aussiefrogs App
    Peter
    1950 11BL
    1970 AZUA "La Poste" van
    1986 2CV Dolly (red and white)
    2004 C5 HDi silver 2.0L

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    153

    Default

    Talked to Von Bibra, they're looking into the part for me, thanks. Not going to get the water pump/timing belt though, they're charging $250 just for the water pump and would get back to for a price on timing belt. Anyone know a supplier in Aus thats reasonable? I couldn't get onto EAI but will try again Monday, but would be good to get quotes from a few different places.

    With the oil, can someone give me some tips on the procedure to change it. I think I'll go with the Penrite as its cheaper and more widely available. So I need to get the oil to 60degrees before I drain right? How do I measure the temp before I drain? Or should I just go around the block a few times and that should be enough?

    I've also got the same heater blower issue as discussed here C5 interior fan problem. I've purchased a new one from ebay as the previous owner tried to fix it and completely muffed it. I can see in the pics from one of the posts that there are 2 red and 2 black thicker cables. Does it matter which cables go where? I can't tell after his botch fix job where the original cables should go. I can't even tell which pairs I should group together
    Any help or advice would be appreciated.
    Thanks.

  11. #11
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    You can shoot the tranny case temp with a pyrometer, or just drive it for twenty minutes to get up to spec.

    Have you bought the 8mm square headed tool for the trans fill plug, and rigged up a funnel with hanging hook?

    EAI will be within cooee of other local suppliers on parts; I am a trade account holder there so please note this potential "conflict of interests". It's often swings and roundabouts with assorted timing items; one place might save you $5 on a tensioner, and another is $5 cheaper on a belt. But if you run everyone around for the sake of $15-20 in net savings, which one will take your calls in the event of a misfit or concern?

    Cloggz might be able to help you with the blower control module. He no longer posts here but is on French Car Forum UK.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,670

    Default

    There's an existing discussion thread on changing the AL4's oil, so it should be fairly easily found. You change about 4 litres at a time. The idea is to overfill it and wait for the excess to stop flowing out a weir inside the drainplug when it's at 60C.

    With the wiring, you have to connect all the wires up to the correct pins on the control unit. If the plug is damaged, you need to find one from a wreck, search for the connector parts in the parts listing or work around it by soldering in some extra wires to the control unit PCB.

  13. #13
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    153

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    There's an existing discussion thread on changing the AL4's oil, so it should be fairly easily found. You change about 4 litres at a time. The idea is to overfill it and wait for the excess to stop flowing out a weir inside the drainplug when it's at 60C.

    With the wiring, you have to connect all the wires up to the correct pins on the control unit. If the plug is damaged, you need to find one from a wreck, search for the connector parts in the parts listing or work around it by soldering in some extra wires to the control unit PCB.
    David, I think thats what the guy has tried to do, solder the wires directly on the pcb. One of the wires has come loose and come off the pcb. I tried to connect it again, but still didn't help. So I guess putting it directly on the pcb wasn't a totla muff job and he may have known what he was doing? I thought the wires had to be correct, was hoping there would be an easy way to tell which wires went where as the look exactly the same
    Last edited by garethb; 18th November 2013 at 12:30 PM.

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    153

    Default

    addo, not too fussed about saving $10 rather than making a million calls, I just wanted to make sure there wasn't a $100 difference between different places. Thanks, I will call around the few different places later today.

    Cloggz posted in here earlier? I'll post some images when I get home of how it looks at the moment.

  15. #15
    Fellow Frogger! Clogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Sydney 2087
    Posts
    189

    Default

    Yes Adam, I'm still here.

    Don't know how to pair the wires, maybe look further up to see how they're joined.

    I changed the transmission oil when "hot" and it's gone well since.
    Hot is two spins around the block in Queensland.

    The sticky interior washes well with cheap dishwash, and also rinses off easily.

    Best wishes.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails New Citroen Owner - Gearbox and timing belt advice-blower_module_2.jpg   New Citroen Owner - Gearbox and timing belt advice-blower_module_1.jpg   New Citroen Owner - Gearbox and timing belt advice-blower_module_3.jpg  
    Last edited by Clogzz; 18th November 2013 at 06:48 PM.
    2003 C5 2.0i AL4 205,000 km 76372389

  16. #16
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2005
    Location
    Don't remind me!
    Posts
    16,609

    Default

    Knew I'd seen you somewhere recently, LOL.
    Clogzz likes this.

  17. #17
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    153

    Default

    Thanks Clogzz, that first image hopefully gives some clue, I can see one of the red wires has a number on it, hoping its not the same number on both! maybe wishful thinking?
    The previous owner has soldered the wires directly on the back of the pcb, so I'll assume that they're soldered in the correct place.
    If I do put the wires in the wrong place, will this harm the new part? I got one off ebay for $25, so no biggy ordering another one, its just that it takes 3 weeks to get here, and 3 weeks in a Queensland summer with no air will hurt. Will be good for my weight loss before the holidays though I guess....

  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    153

    Default

    Also, update on water pump and timing belt. Most places are around the same price, some had the water pump cheaper but timing belt more expensive and vice versa, but all in all only a few dollars difference in general. So planning on going with a place close to Brisbane since I can pick the parts up instead of waiting for shipping and fees called Nationwide Auto Parts, they're in WA, Vic and Qld. Anyone dealt with them?

  19. #19
    Fellow Frogger
    Join Date
    Jan 2004
    Location
    Sydney
    Posts
    9,670

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by garethb View Post
    David, I think thats what the guy has tried to do, solder the wires directly on the pcb. One of the wires has come loose and come off the pcb. I tried to connect it again, but still didn't help. So I guess putting it directly on the pcb wasn't a totla muff job and he may have known what he was doing? I thought the wires had to be correct, was hoping there would be an easy way to tell which wires went where as the look exactly the same
    The reason people solder wires to the circuit board and fit a different connector plug is because the original socket and plug have melted. Sometimes, it melts the solder and the PCB pins pull out. You might need a wiring diagram with pin numbers if it's all too confusing. It's usually only two of the heavy wires that are soldered and the plug then cut to suit. If the module doesn't work and there is no melting, then the fault is probably with the power transistor inside. Some people have reported that just adding some more heat sink grease will fix one that is erratic.

    You could try Dapco in Sydney for parts prices. Neat Car Parts in the UK are OK and carry genuine parts, but can be a bit slow sending parts in my limited experience. They do carry the fittings for the engine cover, which do break. Bolting the cover on directly transmits vibration.

    You might want to mark the crank damper with paint so you can check whether the rubber is still OK and the outer is not turning. You want to change this with the timing belt if it needs changing because the timing adjustment is set at the crankshaft from late 2001. You'll find the timing belt pulley at the crankshaft can turn. The timing belt tension is officially set using a factory tool that reads in units called 'Seems'. You won't have this tool, so you have to make a bit of a guess using common sense here. If in doubt, ask a mechanic. It's also worth checking the state of the aux belt and making sure the one-way clutch in the alternator pulley works. If it's jammed, the aux belt and its tensioner will wear prematurely and you will have a lot of vibration at idle.

    The detent pin for the gear lever is a valid part, but didn't appear as a separate part in the parts diagrams. The parts guy might says he can't find it in the Citroen parts listing, but it should be listed in the Citroen Australia parts system.

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! Clogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Sydney 2087
    Posts
    189

    Default

    Hi Gareth,

    The two thick wires on the small plug go to the motor.
    The four wires on the large plug come from the supply and control.
    There won't be any fireworks unless the red and black from the supply are wired in the wrong way around.

    New Citroen Owner - Gearbox and timing belt advice-blower_module_4.jpg
    2003 C5 2.0i AL4 205,000 km 76372389

  21. #21
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    153

    Default

    Thanks David S and Clogzz!

    David S, I do have access to a tension tool and the service manual states the required tension so hopefully all good for that part. A lot of what you've said has gone over my head, but the guy who'll be helping in his shop knows this stuff so I'll take a copy of what you've said when we start the work!

    Clogzz, thanks for that, I'm going to go with the idea that they've soldered the wires on the correct spots on the pcb. Hopefully they did! Can I use a butt crimp connector to connect the wires to the new module I've ordered?
    Also Clogzz, you've said you use Penrite BMV, apprarently they don't make that anymore. I spoke to a technician at Penrite and he's told me that the replacement is now ATF FS. On their website they do have this stuff ticked as good to use with Citroen.... would this stuff be OK? @ $11.25/L I'm hoping so!
    Last edited by garethb; 21st November 2013 at 05:18 PM.

  22. #22
    Fellow Frogger! Clogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Sydney 2087
    Posts
    189

    Default

    Hi Gareth,

    Yes, butt crimps are ideal for the high current.

    I had read on the forum last year that BMV had been replaced by another oil, but somehow BMV is still on Penrite's site.

    ATF FS is expensive because it's synthetic, while BMV wasn't.
    Penrite says that it's a suitable replacement for the original LT 71141 oil, and I certainly trust them.
    They also say that their semi-synthetic ATF MHP is suitable, and it should be cheaper.

    The filler plug of the AL4 has an 8 mm square recess.
    A door lock shaft is 8 mm square, and Bunnings sells them separately for about $2.
    I had a nut welded onto the shaft by the part-time welding teacher at the part-time welding school at the eastern end of Price Street in Southport.
    He may be able to do the same for you for a small Ďconsiderationí.

    Last edited by Clogzz; 22nd November 2013 at 07:37 PM.
    2003 C5 2.0i AL4 205,000 km 76372389

  23. #23
    Fellow Frogger!
    Join Date
    Nov 2013
    Location
    Gold Coast
    Posts
    153

    Default

    Cloggz, I think I love you...
    Another question on the blower... When the wires are disconnected, I should only see power coming through 2 of them as the other 2 then carry the power out to the motor, so its power in on 2 from the supply and power out on the other 2 to the motor?
    Clogzz likes this.

  24. #24
    Fellow Frogger! Clogzz's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Location
    Sydney 2087
    Posts
    189

    Default





    You’re sooo right, there should only be power between the thick red and black wires of the wide plug that also has the two thin wires on it.
    The two wires on the other plug go to the motor, so should have nothing on them when disconnected.

    The left picture six posts up shows the red wires on the 'inside' and the picture three posts up shows the red wires joined on the rear of the printed board.
    Therefore, with both plugs in, there will always be power between the red wires and the incoming black wire.
    The speed control is done by varying the voltage on the black wire going to the motor.
    2003 C5 2.0i AL4 205,000 km 76372389

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •