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Thread: C5 Aisin Warner 6 speed automatic

  1. #26
    Fellow Frogger! Meggsy's Avatar
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    try A & B transmissions in Melbourne( Dandenong) they do the repairs for Peugeot Australia always found them top rate
    Cheers

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    Meggsy
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  2. #27
    Contented Peugeot Driver addo's Avatar
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    I personally wouldn't piss on them if they were burning.
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  3. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by addo View Post
    I personally wouldn't piss on them if they were burning.
    Thank god for that, because I'd be there watching and holding the petrol can.

  4. #29
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    does anyone think there would be any harm is putting a lucas stop slip additive to the box ?
    https://www.lucasoil.com/products/di...smission%20Fix
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  5. #30
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    Don't use stop slip or any additive because it's full of zinc to try to soften the seals but it really turns them rubber o ring s to jelly that's an old thing invented before the 80s and hasn't changed much

  6. #31
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    thanks. i tried getting a valve body rebuild but did not work. this is a great video showing a similar model box being dismantled. a common theme he repeats is that there's often more wrong than the valve body. keep this in mind when considering between a valve body and complete rebuild.

    www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrAe4XBzENc

  7. #32
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    Given my aviation experience and the fact that oil in a/c hydraulic systems was regarly changed I would so that changing oil in a modern transmission should go a long way to prolong its life given this is why we change engine oils both deteriate and im sure as someone pointed out that ford product was same as peugeot maybe we need a sticky to highlight replacements to OEM
    Last edited by niks; 27th June 2014 at 06:05 PM. Reason: doubling up

  8. #33
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    Given my aviation experience and the fact that oil in a/c hydraulic systems was regularly changed I would say that changing oil in a modern transmission should go a long way to prolong its life given this is why we change engine oils, both deteriorate and I'm sure as someone pointed out that ford product was same as Peugeot maybe we need a sticky to highlight replacements to OEM

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by frenchtranstech View Post
    Don't use stop slip or any additive because it's full of zinc to try to soften the seals but it really turns them rubber o ring s to jelly that's an old thing invented before the 80s and hasn't changed much
    Post is a bit old for reply, but for what it's worth here goes. There are no rubber O rings or seals, they're made of a whole lot of different man made compounds, most of which actually respond quite well to Lucas products. Have used Lucas for many years and wouldn't consider anything else because in my book there isn't anything else. It really works well, stops the piston and accumulator seals from hardening, keeps those damn electro valves nicely coated with slippery stuff and usually you find the trans running much cooler. It's the piss poor transmission oil which does the damage in the long run.

  10. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by haydent View Post
    does anyone think there would be any harm is putting a lucas stop slip additive to the box ?
    https://www.lucasoil.com/products/di...smission%20Fix
    Thoroughly recommend, but after you correct the problems. Too many people think that gearbox internal problems can be rectified by a can of additive.

  11. #36
    1000+ Posts cruiserman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I read these posts and continue to wonder why so many folk buy automatics.

    No doubt there is a good reason? We've just avoided them altogether.
    And then there is the lovely dual mass flywheel to cause grief to the manual driver trying to avoid the issues of the automatics. That is assuming you have the choice in the first place.

    The automatic in my 2005 Statesman did not miss a beat in the 130000 that I had the car for and the one in the 6.0 litre Caprice is still very happy after 153000.

    The zf4hp struggled to get to 100000 on a regular basis.

    Have been considering a 508 gt to replace the Caprice but uncertainty over the auto with no manual option is really clouding the choice, might just hang on to the comfort space and grunt offered by the big limo.
    Neil
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  12. #37
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    So just to get a clear understanding of the situation - if my AM6 box has had the oil changed and it's still operating perfectly at 86,000km, adding the Lucas Transmission Fix would be a good preventative measure? The only product with 'stop slip' in its name that I could find was for power steering fluid, so I'm guessing this is the product to use for the AM6:

    Lucas Transmission Fix

    Lucas Transmission Fix is a non-solvent formula that stops slip, hesitation and
    rough shifting in worn transmissions and completely eliminates most seal leaks.
    Use in any transmission for preventative maintenance.
    Use also in light duty manual transmissions to increase shifting ease and transmission life.

    KEY BENEFITS

    • Contains no solvents
    • Lowers operating temperatures and stops foaming
    • Can be added to existing fluid without draining any out
    • Effective in an extremely high percentage of cases

    PACKAGING

    #10009 - 700ml Case of 24
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


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  13. #38
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    If it ain't broke, don't fix it
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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it
    Sadly, that doesn't seem to work too well with these modern 'sealed for life' auto boxes. I've heard of suspiciously too many failures, both with euro ZF boxes and these asian types. Anyone got experience to offer on my question?
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


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  15. #40
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    Yes - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Put another way, no one comes to a forum and tells people about how their gearbox is not broken.
    Regards,

    Simon

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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Yes - if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

    Put another way, no one comes to a forum and tells people about how their gearbox is not broken.
    haha Simon - perhaps I should clarify by saying I'm not coming on the forum to tell people that my gearbox is working perfectly - as if anybody would care. I'm asking for specific information about a Lucas product's suitability to help get longer life out of this box. Let me put it another way - if it ain't broke, you can't fix it even if you want to, but you can undertake preventative maintenance such as the more frequent oil changes that Greg C recommends from his experience. I'll take your comment to mean you have nothing to add in terms of what might extend the life beyond the 'official' service procedures? Perhaps I should have asked Shanadoo in a PM since he seems to have experience with these types of boxes and that Lucas products will help.
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


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  17. #42
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by electroboy View Post
    I'll take your comment to mean you have nothing to add in terms of what might extend the life beyond the 'official' service procedures?
    That's my point - don't add anything

    Regular oil changes would be my advice too, however most people only seem to change the oil when the gearbox has already developed an issue.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    If it ain't broke, don't fix it
    But try to prevent it from breaking in the future.
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  19. #44
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    Why be proactive when you can bleat on the internet instead?
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  20. #45
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    I'm the Chairman of the VACC auto trans category and we are always thinking of ways to educate the the public to regularly change the transmission oil.Thats the only way to prolong the life of the transmission.
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  21. #46
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    After replacing the valve body with an OEM new one (from the UK, same supplier as Addo used IIRC) my AM6 has been behaving perfectly.

    Before replacing the valve body I had 'changed' the fluid twice (but not prior to 80,000km) and tried additive from Lucas, which really seemed to do little more than delaying onset of shifting problems as the fluid heated up. Obviously the wear and tear in the valve body (bores?) was already underway before the fluid was changed.

    Shame that Citroen don't recommend sensible fluid change intervals, but I guess Citroen is not the only guilty party - the 'sealed for life' transmission caper seems to be little more than a BS story to sneak through EU emissions regulations. They know most autos will get through the warranty period before gear changes go bad.

    Research told me it was perfectly fine to use non-Citroen fluid (I used Toyota fluid, the one they use in the same gearbox). Topped up an extra litre after setting level at 74ļ. If I'd followed the Citroen refill procedure I would have to wait for it to cool to 60ļ and then just top up half a litre. Then told the thing it had new fluid, set neutral position, persuaded it to do a 'full re-program' and went for a lovely drive.

    In between dodging wombats I was watching the gearbox temp top out around 81ļ with no hint of shifting problems. Cheap repair, valve body cost around $700 landed from UK, fluid was around $80 and I have sufficient for another fluid change in 20,000km from now.

    New Pirellis go on today so hopefully we'll enjoy many miles more in this car. I like it a lot!

    P.S. I also just want to say thanks to those who have contributed good info on these Aisin-Warner gearboxes over recent years - especially to Addo, but also thanks to others. Anybody contemplating a DIY valve body change in the AM6 box, feel free to PM me for more details.
    Last edited by electroboy; 15th May 2017 at 04:40 PM.
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    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


    1994 405 SRDT white - (free to a good home, unreg. & needs injector pump re-fitting)
    1997 Toyota Hilux Surf
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    non-sequitur - 1951 Hudson Pacemaker brush-painted matt black!

  22. #47
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    Well, when I bought my C5 X7 at 105km I bargained with the dealer and any servicing they would pay 50% of. After the timing belt, water pump, coolant, pulleys and tensioners I also go EUROSERVE to do a service on the transmission. Talking to the mechanic he mentioned that Citroen say the box is sealed for life but Puegeot have a service kit for the same transmission. Now at 130,000km and zero issues.

    I use a local Future Automotive for minor services and take it to Euroserve for major jobs. FYI I bount this C5 from a Volkswagen dealer and the comment from the sales man was that the Citroen would be more reliable than the VW....and he's a factory trained technician from the UK>

    Hmmm....
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  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by NigeltheC5 View Post
    Well, when I bought my C5 X7 at 105km I bargained with the dealer and any servicing they would pay 50% of. After the timing belt, water pump, coolant, pulleys and tensioners I also go EUROSERVE to do a service on the transmission. Talking to the mechanic he mentioned that Citroen say the box is sealed for life but Puegeot have a service kit for the same transmission. Now at 130,000km and zero issues.

    Hmmm....
    Interesting Nigel, do you know what Euroserve did in their service on your transmission?

    I wonder what the Peugeot service kit for the transmission includes...perhaps seals for the filler & drain plugs along with some fluid? Hmmmm...I might have to ask a pug mechanic about this.
    Cheerio,

    Geoff (in Mirboo North)


    1994 405 SRDT white - (free to a good home, unreg. & needs injector pump re-fitting)
    1997 Toyota Hilux Surf
    2007 Citroen C5 Hdi Wagon
    2003 Merc Vito 112Cdi
    non-sequitur - 1951 Hudson Pacemaker brush-painted matt black!

  24. #49
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    Hi Guys,

    First there was the DS Borg warner, and lots of problems. I would say there wasn't a DS that got through warranty (12 months) without the gearbox removed at least once. Some were 2 & 3 times.

    In hindsight, most of the problems was poor assembly by Borg Warner?

    Citroens autos after that were ZF, and very reliable. Problems towards the end of their life was generally traced back to never changing the oil.

    PSA , Renault & Siemens thought they could build a better box, so enter the AL4. This isn't a bad box like the BW, but it was eventually used with engines in the C5 beyond its capacity. In these situations it was very problematic, though some units have given a very healthy life. Not changing the oil certainly added to the problems

    The present auto is the 6 speed Aisin (not Aisin Warner). This is an excellent unit and is generally very trouble free, so long as you change the the oil. Yes there are some that have valve body problems, and it is an expensive fix, but they mostly give a very trouble free life.

    Our old 2006 C5 HDI has now done 288,000 ks, and the gearbox hasn't missed a beat, but the oil is changed regularly, and filled with Nulon Multi purpose Full Synthetic AT oil only.

    My experience with the AM6 gearbox and the valve body problems is that a reconditioned valve body doesn't resolve the problem. Continental Cars did use a few reconditioned units, but continued to give problems, so they will only use a new valve body now.

    I think that says it all!

    One thing to note is that if you drain the oil through the level / drain plug, you will only drain about 3 litres. I've seen where some transmission repaired suck the oil out, but i'm a bit skeptical that you can drain the entire contents?

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

  25. #50
    Fellow Frogger! Greg's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,

    First there was the DS Borg warner, and lots of problems. I would say there wasn't a DS that got through warranty (12 months) without the gearbox removed at least once. Some were 2 & 3 times.

    In hindsight, most of the problems was poor assembly by Borg Warner?

    Citroens autos after that were ZF, and very reliable. Problems towards the end of their life was generally traced back to never changing the oil.

    PSA , Renault & Siemens thought they could build a better box, so enter the AL4. This isn't a bad box like the BW, but it was eventually used with engines in the C5 beyond its capacity. In these situations it was very problematic, though some units have given a very healthy life. Not changing the oil certainly added to the problems

    The present auto is the 6 speed Aisin (not Aisin Warner). This is an excellent unit and is generally very trouble free, so long as you change the the oil. Yes there are some that have valve body problems, and it is an expensive fix, but they mostly give a very trouble free life.

    Our old 2006 C5 HDI has now done 288,000 ks, and the gearbox hasn't missed a beat, but the oil is changed regularly, and filled with Nulon Multi purpose Full Synthetic AT oil only.

    My experience with the AM6 gearbox and the valve body problems is that a reconditioned valve body doesn't resolve the problem. Continental Cars did use a few reconditioned units, but continued to give problems, so they will only use a new valve body now.

    I think that says it all!

    One thing to note is that if you drain the oil through the level / drain plug, you will only drain about 3 litres. I've seen where some transmission repaired suck the oil out, but i'm a bit skeptical that you can drain the entire contents?

    Best regards,

    Greg
    We Have:
    C5 HDI Exclusive 2.7 '09, Pluriel '09, Berlingo 1.6 HDI '10, C4 VTS coupe. C4 Picasso '08, 2CV Charleston '84 Grey, 2CV, '55 Australian delivered. 15/6 H '55, SM '74 BVM, DS21 EFI BVH, DS21 '67 BVH.
    We Had:
    1930C6F, '73 GS1220 wagon X 2, '75 G special, '75 GS panel van, '74 GS Birotor, '82 GSA panel van with factory AC, '85 CX25GTI BVM, 2002 C5 V6, 2006, C5 S2 HDI, '86 BX19GT, '72 DS21 BVM, '55 15/6H, '54 Lt 15,'73 Dyane, '82 Visa Super X, with Chrono Mecs & factory AC, 1972 SM.

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