is one notch to many? BX19 timing belt slip
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Thread: is one notch to many? BX19 timing belt slip

  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default is one notch to many? BX19 timing belt slip

    Edit (...TOO many)

    I think that the timing belt on the BX has slipped. I am aware that they are an interference engine, but can anyone enlighten me please on if its possible for the timing belt to slip a notch (maybe 2) and NOT do any valve damage..

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    thanks

  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Mungous's Avatar
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    Yes. One or two teeth shouldn't lead to valve damage.

  3. #3
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    Default Slipped ???

    Quote Originally Posted by 2bxornot2bx View Post
    Edit (...TOO many)

    I think that the timing belt on the BX has slipped. I am aware that they are an interference engine, but can anyone enlighten me please on if its possible for the timing belt to slip a notch (maybe 2) and NOT do any valve damage..

    thanks
    Hi 2bxornot2bx
    People loosely use the term "slipped" a tooth or two. However I cannot see how that can happen in normal use and circumstances. It can only happen if something has failed. Tooth belts cannot slip, that's why they are used If indeed it has happened I would stop using it NOW as it will happen again soon and be terminal. That has been my experience anyway.

    Mungous said; " Yes. One or two teeth shouldn't lead to valve damage."
    Probably true but who has tried it to see what happens.



    jaahn

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    I have a Berlingo that I found after some investigation was running 1 tooth advanced. The belt tension was ok so I can only assume that it was set that way accidentally when it had a belt change 20 odd thousand km before I got it. As stated it is pretty difficult for a toothed belt to slip and if it did the belt would be noticeably loose.
    Mine had no detrimental affects other than a lack of power down low and a reluctance to rev.All good now.

  5. #5
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    thanks so far everyone..

    yes ...so car not in use at the moment as it will not start...i am recalling ancient days of my fiat 128 sport cambelt slipping/jumping with nothing more catastrophic than new belt and retiming..

    The belt on the GT is "floppy" and I believe they can jump especially on throttle off..what has failed i believe is the tensioner...

    Comforting to hear other cit stories of non destructive timing belt anomalies..
    Last edited by 2bxornot2bx; 3rd November 2013 at 11:07 PM.

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    Not a BX, but we had a Holden (Opel) Barina that some had changed the belt on and incorrectly timed by one tooth, it also was ok once the error was corrected.

  7. #7
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hi Guys,
    something else does happen, which makes it APPEAR that the belt has slipped, when it has not in fact jumped a tooth. What happens over time it that the Crank pulley AKA Harmonic Balance gets loose. It's very slight, but the rubber that fits between the two parts of the pulley can allow the outer pulley metal to slip around. So what? Well, the outer pulley is where the timing marks are stamped.
    When manufactured , the marks are correct. After years of use, and a little engine oil seeping into the rubber, the harmonic balance begins to deteriorate. Added to the continual stress from the accessory belt which is continually turning the HP pump, that offers a fair bit of resistance, the two parts get out of whack. So, when you look at the belt timing marks on the crank pulley you cannot assume they are where they started. If you take off the pulley, and go by the crank keyway and set TDC, then refit the pulley, without the crank turning, and you know the cam has not been turned, you should be ok.
    The best way to be positively sure would be to fit a new Harmonic Balance.
    I discovered this when I replaced my timing belt about 4 years ago.
    Cheers...George 1/8th.

  8. #8
    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
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    I had an Mi16 skip 2 teeth and bent 10 valves!

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    Quote Originally Posted by cav91 View Post
    I had an Mi16 skip 2 teeth and bent 10 valves!

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    Hi cav91,
    How did it "skip" 2 teeth ? Was it 2 teeth on the crank or the camshafts.
    Cheers Jaahn

  10. #10
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    My question exactly!!
    JohnW

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  11. #11
    Tadpole
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    Its a citroen just keep driving it then scrap it when it blows up.
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts cav91's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jaahn View Post
    Hi cav91,
    How did it "skip" 2 teeth ? Was it 2 teeth on the crank or the camshafts.
    Cheers Jaahn
    I think it was the cams end for memory. We just lined up the timing and and it was out two, when we went to fit the locking pins. As far as how It happened, no body has come up with an answer. The belt and kit still had another 20000 kms in it and 6 months. The harmonic balancer looked perfect. In the end we just put it together with the same timing stuff minus a new belt. 50000 kms later it was still going strong until someone didn't look before turning and killed the old girl. I even ran it at deca with the pug club. Gave it a hard time that day!

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  13. #13
    Tadpole
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    My C5 2002 HDi slipped one tooth. Here's how it happened. It occurred when the crankshaft pulley failed catastrophically smashing the timing belt lower cover and depositing a 3cm long bit of rubber from the pulley into the timing belt. Fortunately I was driving into my garage when it happened and shut down the engine immediately. There were nasty noises coming from the right side of the engine bay and I lost power steering, so figured it was something to do with the auxiliary drive train. When doing the post mortem I found the bit of rubber jammed between the teeth on the belt and the crankshaft pulley and could see the belt teeth being lifted off the pulley and offset. When I turned the engine over by hand I could feel the pistons hitting the valves, but only just. I re-timed the engine, that's when I found it was one tooth out. I expected the worst, but found there was good compression so continued reassembly. It started and ran fine....phew!! I replaced both belts, idler and tensioner pulleys and fitted a new crankshaft pulley. I repaired the timing belt lower cover with fibreglass cost $10. I'm hoping there has not been any damage to the valve gear, hydraulic lifters, but after 600Km, I'm becoming more confident that I've dodged a bullet!!

    After this experience, I think the crankshaft pulley/ harmonic balancer should be replaced at say 100K -150K Km. Mine failed at 180K Km

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  14. #14
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    What a first post! Welcome to Aussie Frogs - sounds like you'll have a lot of useful experience to share .

    Cheers

    Alec
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