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    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Default LHM leak CX

    Apologies if this is a repeat question of a recent thread, I think a saw but couldn't find again.
    Anyway a LHM leak which I was told was the accumulator sphere, now replaced with new, but leak still exists. What could the possible cause be?

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    Adrian

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    An accumulator would never leak. It's more likely it's seal could allow it to weep (far more likely would be a hemorrhage though ) Look higher, it'll be dripping from further up. Either the regulator HP lines or the bug chunky rubber hose that's the regulator return.

    It's possible even the regulator itself could be weeping from somewhere like around the bleed screw. The only thing I"m certain it would never be is the accumulator itself.

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    UFO
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    Dribble or pressure squirt? If dribble then I go with Shane re the regulator return line.
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    Fellow Frogger! IE23's Avatar
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    Its a dribble. I'll double check to see where it is coming from. First inspection the thought was the leak is from where the sphere connects to the pressure regulator. If its not the return line could the regulator need checking or reconditioning?


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    Looking at your photo it appears to come from between sphere and regulator;did you fit new rubber seal or used the old deformed one? Try new seal,Andy.

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    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    and then when that one is fixed another will appear further along and away you go again

    there is a reason why CX's tend to have better rust protection than the DS it replaced
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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    correct Pugrambo. Part of the design to protect from rust and give the owner something to do on the weekend. If the regulator body is wet look at the main regulator return hose. If not it is the seal between the accumulator and regulator. When replacing, wet the seal with LHM and do up firmly but by hand only.
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    correct Pugrambo. Part of the design to protect from rust and give the owner something to do on the weekend. If the regulator body is wet look at the main regulator return hose. If not it is the seal between the accumulator and regulator. When replacing, wet the seal with LHM and do up firmly but by hand only.
    I agree the logic of the regulator leak discussion. My CX has a totally elusive leak somewhere behind the engine. Three independent folk over several years have failed to find it (I'm one of the three). I suspect a pinhole high pressure leak, eith atomised LHM gathering over a wide area including the exhaust, explaining the smoke through the bonnet for the first 10 minutes of driving after a one-week break!! No rust of course, but continued embarrassment at the work car park...
    JohnW

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I agree the logic of the regulator leak discussion. My CX has a totally elusive leak somewhere behind the engine. Three independent folk over several years have failed to find it (I'm one of the three). I suspect a pinhole high pressure leak, eith atomised LHM gathering over a wide area including the exhaust, explaining the smoke through the bonnet for the first 10 minutes of driving after a one-week break!! No rust of course, but continued embarrassment at the work car park...
    Which section of exhaust, John? In front of motor or behind?
    Cheers Gerry

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Which section of exhaust, John? In front of motor or behind?
    Behind Gerry. Somewhere.... I get fumes out of the bonnet if it is left for a week or two, quite impressive. Drips everywhere, perhaps concentrated on the left side but many drip points. Rack replaced twice and doesn't seem to be that this time!

    I'm going to apply $$ to it while on holiday. I can't see where the stuff is coming from from...

    Thanks. Shouldn't have hijacked the thread actually....
    JohnW

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    Which section of exhaust, John? In front of motor or behind?
    Behind Gerry. Somewhere.... I get fumes out of the bonnet if it is left for a week or two, quite impressive. Drips everywhere, perhaps concentrated on the left side but many drip points. Rack replaced twice and doesn't seem to be that this time!

    I'm going to apply $$ to it while on holiday. I can't see where the stuff is coming from from...

    Thanks. Shouldn't have hijacked the thread actually....
    JohnW

    Renault 4CV 1950 (R1062)
    Renault R8 1965 (R1130)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2005 (wife's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2006 (daughter's)
    Renault Scenic Series II 2007 (mine)

    CitroŽn CX Pallas 1980 (moved on to new custodian)

    National Co-ordinator, Renault 4CV Register of Australia

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    Quote Originally Posted by IE23 View Post
    Apologies if this is a repeat question of a recent thread, I think a saw but couldn't find again.
    Anyway a LHM leak which I was told was the accumulator sphere, now replaced with new, but leak still exists. What could the possible cause be?
    I'm experiencing a very similar leak. I've had the main accumulator sphere pressure checked recently as ok. It looks as if the actual gas service port is leaking? That would mean the diaphragm has failed within? I will change the o-ring seal in case it's that of course which leads me to ask: when spheres fail they fill with oil, therefore would be heavier than a good one. As I don't have a pressure tester has anyone weighed spheres as a guide? Or would their weight be dependant on whether they would gravity feed or vacuum feed depending on their fitment orientation?


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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    I just weighed an accumulator sphere and the answer is 1591g. I think you will need to use a very accurate digital gauge in order to resolve any difference between oil inside or not. The oil is not going to be a large portion of the total weight of the sphere. Hope there is a good set of scales in the kitchen you can use.
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    1000+ Posts daffyduck's Avatar
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    When a flat pineapple sphere is pressurized by the hydraulic system, the bladder is pushed against the fixing nut for the fill screw and it almost always ruins the bladder rendering the sphere only suitable for the junk bin.

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    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    On way to test sphere this morning
    Update: Tested OK with over 50 PSI (new ones 65PSI) Replaced the O-ring which looked passed it's best. My general system does cycle too often. It seems so many parts eventually cause this. On High the pump doesn't run nearly as much. Due to the suspension cyclinders and height correctors being in a position that is rarely used as in constrast to the main working area of these items. I do have to do another leaking steering rack though. It's just starting to show more than it should. Now where to buy the kit from?.... Oops, In bar not PSI!
    Last edited by Jinandfonic; 3rd December 2013 at 07:26 PM.
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    I think you mean bar not PSI. 1 bar is 15psi. Therefore 65 bar is ~975psi.
    Craig K
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    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    I've sprung a leak. The car is in a puddle of green. Oozing from the end of the brake valve. I hope it is just the supply pipeAttachment 50706


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    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    LHM leak CX-imageuploadedbyaussiefrogs1386533744.977875.jpg


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    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    There is a very simple way to see if a removed sphere has a ruptured membrane. Using a piece of fine wire as a gauge, gently feed it into the small hole in the centre of the baffle. The wire needs to be about 4or5 centimetres long. If it goes in any further than the depth of the spheres mounting lug ( IE, if it can go in with no resistance any further than the point where the membrane should be) it indicates a collapsed membrane. Normally the membrane, filled with nitrogen under pressure, will stop the wire from going in any further.
    There is no way a fine wire is going to penetrate a good membrane, you are not hammering it in like a nail, it's just used to see if the membrane is where it ought to be.
    This is very simple ,and it works. Robert Kalkbrenner of Heka and Co showed me this.
    cheers...George 1/8th

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinandfonic View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	ImageUploadedByaussiefrogs1386533744.977875.jpg 
Views:	343 
Size:	7.5 KB 
ID:	50708


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    Leaks there are generally the handbrake cable rubbing through the return lines from the brake valve.

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    shane L.
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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  21. #21
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Hi Adrian,
    if your accumulator body is painted GREEN ( or Black), then there is no way it will ever break down , become porous or start to leak. It's made of cast iron.
    My DS21 originally had an ALUMINIUM accumulator body, which did begin to spray LHM everywhere on City rd South Melbourne one day. It had a row of fine holes that worked like a sprinkler. It was pretty close to just ripping apart. It was easily replaced with a cast iron one.
    cheers...George 1/8th

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    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George 1/8th View Post
    Hi Adrian,
    if your accumulator body is painted GREEN ( or Black), then there is no way it will ever break down , become porous or start to leak. It's made of cast iron.
    My DS21 originally had an ALUMINIUM accumulator body, which did begin to spray LHM everywhere on City rd South Melbourne one day. It had a row of fine holes that worked like a sprinkler. It was pretty close to just ripping apart. It was easily replaced with a cast iron one.
    cheers...George 1/8th
    Is this the same for the brake valve body? It isn't green like the accumulator body.


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    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    I agree the logic of the regulator leak discussion. My CX has a totally elusive leak somewhere behind the engine. Three independent folk over several years have failed to find it (I'm one of the three). I suspect a pinhole high pressure leak, eith atomised LHM gathering over a wide area including the exhaust, explaining the smoke through the bonnet for the first 10 minutes of driving after a one-week break!! No rust of course, but continued embarrassment at the work car park...
    Hi John, my CX had a mystery leak like yours, and it was ALMOST impossible to find it. In my case it was a leaking return hose from the Safety valve. Now where the hell is that, he asks. Good question....it's kind of down the back of the engine between the sub frame and the inlet manifold, it's almost impossible to find and see from just about any angle. This one is a real bastard to get at. It's not very large, it has about 4 HP lines going in to it, and one rubber drain hose that can split.
    Good luck finding your leak.
    cheers...George 1/8th.

  24. #24
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jinandfonic View Post
    Is this the same for the brake valve body? It isn't green like the accumulator body.


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    All the return lines are higher than the brake valve, if the handbrake cable has rubbed through, the LHM will run back down the return line and drip from the brake valve. Just clean the area up and have a look. I bet the lines have perished given the look of that blue line there... Clean it up and see where it's leaking from. I find it highly unlikely it's the brake valve (unless it's leaking onto the carpets inside the car).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! Jinandfonic's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    All the return lines are higher than the brake valve, if the handbrake cable has rubbed through, the LHM will run back down the return line and drip from the brake valve. Just clean the area up and have a look. I bet the lines have perished given the look of that blue line there... Clean it up and see where it's leaking from. I find it highly unlikely it's the brake valve (unless it's leaking onto the carpets inside the car).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Thanks Shane, will do. I had to leave it to get to work. (In the staff car park) With it leaking so rapidly didn't want to have my arm between the wheel & arch for any length of time (plus all my new LHM leaking away to get the thing to rise is distressing) getting towed away today to do the repair safely. Note to self: carry around cat litter to soak up the slipping hazard!


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