To wreck a Safari ?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default To wreck a Safari ?

    A late '74 DS Safari '23 5 Speed is a rusty "wreck" or is it ? Many of us in the past have had to make the difficult deciision to wreck or save a Citroen. What is the fate of this Safari ?
    If the (hull) box sections were riddled with rust, the deciision would be easy ------- but they're not !
    The body, to the rear of the back doors is riddled with rust but apart from the rear sunken floor, needing replacement, the rust is limited to the body The whole front of the DS is as clean as a whistle !.
    Is it possible to remove the rear of the Safari body and convert it into a "ute" or "camper". As with a cabriolet, the box sections would have to be strengthened and major work undertaken.
    Any Ideas ? Michael

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Yo actually want to shorten it into a coupe...
    1970 CitroŽn DS 21 - Rallye du Maroc - YouTube
    Would be even easier than doing the same thing to a 2cv, I've looked ;-)

    Harley

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    I think it's more a matter of 'how deep are your pockets'?

    To see how far some of us would go, have a look at this website, dedicated to Safaris: page_d_acces_citro_wagon
    Here is a chap in France, who imported what some of us would call a wreck, from Quebec, Canada.

    Cheers,

    Bernard

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    1000+ Posts fnqvmuch's Avatar
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    somewhere on the web there are photos of Tissier-type surgery extending and duplicating the rear subframe ...
    will look.

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    I say Keep it because it is rarer than normal one. Only If you can make space in your garage. That mean one has to go!
    If you are wrecking any please do let me know, I would like to pick a parts.

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    I say Keep it because it is rarer than normal one. Only If you can make space in your garage. That mean one has to go!
    If you are wrecking any please do let me know, I would like to pick a parts.
    From a DS23 5psd ?? Hang on ... I'm just trying to think what would fit an ID19 .................... um ..................... well there's ..... um ........ Maybe the door seals ... and um .... the windscreen Even some of the bolts have a different thread pitch!!

    If it's badly rusted, it's a parts car ..... It's always going to be cheaper to find a decent car to start with (even if the purchase price is multiples of the value of the rusty one). A UTE is a good idea. I know Roger would love to have a DS ute

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    From a DS23 5psd ?? Hang on ... I'm just trying to think what would fit an ID19 .................... um ..................... well there's ..... um ........ Maybe the door seals ... and um .... the windscreen Even some of the bolts have a different thread pitch!!

    If it's badly rusted, it's a parts car ..... It's always going to be cheaper to find a decent car to start with (even if the purchase price is multiples of the value of the rusty one). A UTE is a good idea. I know Roger would love to have a DS ute

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Ahhh no, I was thinking He would wreck the other one which is same as mine but in bad condition too. And Keep Safari!

    I wanted to ask you this. What is simplest easiest way make my go faster? Increase HP?

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    Ahhh no, I was thinking He would wreck the other one which is same as mine but in bad condition too. And Keep Safari!

    I wanted to ask you this. What is simplest easiest way make my go faster? Increase HP?
    Buy a DS23ie is the easiest way to get a faster DS. Even if you manage to find something like a conaught head and carbs .... It'll still be very slow in the modern scheme of things. Just enjoy it for what it is, that's my suggestion

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  9. #9
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    Thanks for the feedback. As a parts car, it is valuable to me. 5 Speed Box, late "23 engine, original hydraulic spheres, a good dash etc. In the past we have wrecked Citroens that would be restored today, but as it was then, it comes down to demand.
    This particular car was advertised in a Citroen magazine with very little response and I travelled quite some distance and bought the car two days before it was due to be scapped.
    Still, it's difficult for me to write a car off. It's obvious that buyers want good rust free cars so a car like this goes to the scrap.
    So again, thanks for the feedback

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by IDear View Post
    Thanks for the feedback. As a parts car, it is valuable to me. 5 Speed Box, late "23 engine, original hydraulic spheres, a good dash etc. In the past we have wrecked Citroens that would be restored today, but as it was then, it comes down to demand.
    This particular car was advertised in a Citroen magazine with very little response and I travelled quite some distance and bought the car two days before it was due to be scapped.
    Still, it's difficult for me to write a car off. It's obvious that buyers want good rust free cars so a car like this goes to the scrap.
    So again, thanks for the feedback
    Hello, Michael so it sounds like you are wrecking it. Is that possible to come and see if I can save anything usable for my vehicle before crash it?

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Buy a DS23ie is the easiest way to get a faster DS. Even if you manage to find something like a conaught head and carbs .... It'll still be very slow in the modern scheme of things. Just enjoy it for what it is, that's my suggestion

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Ahhhh ok.

    I have never seen anyone installed turbo into any of DS/IDs.. I wonder why....

  12. #12
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    Ahhhh ok.

    I have never seen anyone installed turbo into any of DS/IDs.. I wonder why....
    A turbo on a 3bearing long stroke motor ..................... I doubt that could be made reliable. There was supercharged versions many years ago that I've seen piccies of. I can't imagine the engine is strong enough to take forced induction for any length of time though.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    PS: Nothing from a DS23 wagon is going to fit an ID19 sedan
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by caparobertsan View Post
    Ahhhh ok.

    I have never seen anyone installed turbo into any of DS/IDs.. I wonder why....
    Jack Weaver in Melbourne turbocharged a ID19 in the early '70s. It was a light metallic blue if I recall correctly. Claimed to be capable of 200+ kmph.
    roger

    To wreck a Safari ?-jackweaverid19turbo_1.jpg

  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhs2.1 View Post
    Jack Weaver in Melbourne turbocharged a ID19 in the early '70s. It was a light metallic blue if I recall correctly. Claimed to be capable of 200+ kmph.
    roger

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    That`s done deal! But yes Like Shane said, I do`nt think motor is strong enough for turbo..?
    I was thinking of something non permanent like it engages by press of RED button. Just dreaming.

    But Most likely I will not do such a modifications as I would like to keep my car as long as possible.
    I LOVE MY ID! Sorry Michael I have hacked your thread.....

  15. #15
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhs2.1 View Post
    Jack Weaver in Melbourne turbocharged a ID19 in the early '70s. It was a light metallic blue if I recall correctly. Claimed to be capable of 200+ kmph.
    roger

    Click image for larger version. 

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    That's interesting, can you remember how the 3bearing crank handled boost pressures. I'd have though it would go "bang" very quickly and even modest boost levels.

    There is a turbo charged DS in Australia, it's a later 5bearing motor, so I imagine would handle forced induction a lot better. Have you seen MistaRenaults turbo charged fuego He's used gas only as gas has such a high octane level you don't get much knocking.

    It's Alive.....
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    That's interesting, can you remember how the 3bearing crank handled boost pressures. I'd have though it would go "bang" very quickly and even modest boost levels.
    I think that you are selling the 3 bearing engine short. Over the years many people have modified the cross-flow and earlier variants to reliably produce more power. The advantage of using forced induction (turbo or supercharger) is that the max rpm doesn't have to be increased. The downside is managing the extra heat.
    Jack Weaver was a serial modifier and racer of Citroens and race cars based on Citroen parts. The white Light 15 currently raced in historic racing is Jack's old race car - I vividly remember seeing it at Sandown circa 1973, indecently fast for a Traction. Some info on his earlier exploits can be found in the history section of the CCOCA site - History | CitroŽn Classic Owners Club of Australia Inc.
    roger

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    Fellow Frogger! John P's Avatar
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    Shane, if you are seriously interested, Jack is still around to ask about it. The trail to him would start at CCOCA. Maybe a better starting point would be the 5-bearing short-stroke engine from the safari. There are a few carburettored DS23s around.
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  18. #18
    Fellow Frogger! caparobertsan's Avatar
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    Ahggaaaa.... CITROEN DS TURBO Thread

  19. #19
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    It's alright Kaz. You are welcome to hack my thread. The Safari is under cover and I won't decide it's fate just yet.

  20. #20
    Fellow Frogger! Fingers's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by lhs2.1 View Post
    The advantage of using forced induction (turbo or supercharger) is that the max rpm doesn't have to be increased. The downside is managing the extra heat.
    I agree 100% The peak cylinder pressure doesn't even have to increase, just having the average cylinder pressure increase will be a huge advantage

  21. #21
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    I have some first hand experience here! But it is with my Pallas '23 5 Speed Carby..
    Some years ago, while towing a heavy trailer in the heat and being stuck in a roadworks line of traffic, the engine overheated and to cut a long story short, ---- warped the Head. Off it went to be "shaved" and bolting it back on, I noticed a big differance in Tappet Clearance so adjusting the tappet clearance ofcourse was important.
    It was neccesary to shave the maximum (probably 30 thou) to get rid of the warp.
    " Steeley" (the Citroen mechanic from up Maleny way QLD) always told me that he couldn't beleive how well my DS performed, only being a Carby Model. (he didn't handle the head reconditioning job by the way)

    Well ---- Now it GOES LIKE A ROCKET !
    Now you might remember my thread a while ago ------- BLOWN A SPARK PLUG. That's what happened when I put my foot down. I've blown another one since than. I repaired these with advice from AUSSIE FROGS using the Spark Plug Thread Insert kit.
    I drive the car more sedately, so no more trouble. I imagine, if I did the other two Spark Plug Inserts ----------------------------
    IT WOULD NOW GO LIKE A SUPERCHARGED ROCKET.
    Goes full circle doesn't it. This Thread started as "To wreck a Safari or not",------ well now I have my spare DS 23 Head to make it "alright again".
    Michael

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    Fellow Frogger! deesse's Avatar
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    Hey Michael, I like your story. Cars that magically go faster. I once (1980)was driving my Dads 504 pug up a long hill on the Calder freeway when it coughed and spluttered a bit, then cleared what must have been a big booger and from then on went if not like a rocket then so much better. In your case I presume the compression rate must have been upped now that the combustion chamber is smaller. But I am only guessing. In my case it might have been a fouled plug or a poorly performing car for other reasons.
    cheers Tony

  23. #23
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    Stick this on the bootlid and it will surely go a bit faster ...

    To wreck a Safari ?-t16.jpg

  24. #24
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Stick this on the bootlid and it will surely go a bit faster ...

    Click image for larger version. 

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    You're forgetting a step, David. You have to paint various random bits inside and out a particularly lurid yellow and fit a fart-can exhaust tip to get the full effect.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  25. #25
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    Refrained from commenting on the turbo charging bit (in order to go faster in a Citroen?!

    Reminded me of advice to a young friend some time ago when this fellow wanted to do this and do that to his 2litre motor in order to get more power.

    Advice was, get another vehicles that goes faster stock standard. The manufacturer has gone to a lot of troublde to design and manufacture the motor around a set of parameters. Do you reckon you know more than their Engineers do?

    If you want to fast get into a (second hand) RS4 Audi! You dont have to do a thing with it! Sorry, you may have to disconnect the limiting system to get you over 300KPH!

    Leave the Citroen as is!

    JAJEA

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