C5 broke down while daughter driving :(
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Thread: C5 broke down while daughter driving :(

  1. #1
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    Default C5 broke down while daughter driving :(

    2005 C5 HDi 2.2

    Hey all

    Throwing errors, including engine management fault, electrical / battery fault, sounding quite rough, no power steering at all.

    Just died under my daughter the other night, with the above faults. Went to rescue here and it was a totally dead flat battery. Went and got another which started the car, and manage to limp it home slowly, still with faults and no power steering.

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    Looks like the belt on the drivers side of car, that I assume has something to do with the PS it almost off the various pulleys that it is meant to sit on.

    My nearest dealer is either Gosford or Newcastle, so based on the available information, would this currently be my best option

    Thanks for your help, or if you have any questions please feel free to ask. Any help will be very appreciated.

    Regards

    Richard

  2. #2
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Check the drive belts thoroughly (Citroen hasn't started using serpentine belts yet??), all the mounting points for looseness, missing bolts, etc. I'm guessing by your description the car isn't hydraulic?

    Unfortunately, unless there is a specialist in your area that you can trust, the dealer is your best bet. They're going to clear the fault codes and such, I would be checking the battery (if it's original, it's time for a replacement) and the charge circuit. An awful lot of new-ish cars go bonkers if the voltage drops down below 13.5 or so volts. Most people don't know that a modern system is finicky about the voltage requirements. Lots of computerized equipment needing a stable voltage input. To top it all off, the amperage draw is rather sizable.

    With the power steering- I thought those were electrically driven? It would be a kick in the pants discovering that the belt that drives the power steering is also the one that drives the alternator, and replacing it is all it takes to get your daughter back on the road.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    What about Jason In Hornsby. He loves doing C5 belts
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    Default Hi.

    Hi
    I am just guessing from here, but if the battery is flat and the power steering is not working, it sounds like the drive to both of the alternator and the PS pump is faulty. The belt drive has failed for some reason and you noted it is allmost off. It is a serpentine belt. The hydraulics are electrically driven.

    Check all the pulleys and idler pulleys it goes around to see if they have failed. What is likely is the bottom crankshaft pulley which drives them all may have failed internally if it is a rubber bonded damper style.

    If the bottom pulley has failed then do not let anybody undo it unless they are familiar with the engine. EG a dealer or Citroen(or Peugeot) experienced mechanic. There are some traps with these engines in the timing drive. Others on here may provide more information.

    There is no Citroen dealer in Newcastle now. However the same engine is used in Peugeots also so that may provide some alternatives. The fault codes can be cleared after the actual fault has been fixed. The flat battery will cause lots of codes as it fails, which are not really actual fauts.
    Cheers Jaahn
    Last edited by jaahn; 29th May 2013 at 09:48 PM. Reason: !!

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    In this model C5, the PS is via a pump driven by the accessory belt that also drives the AC and alternator. If the belt has shifted, then there are three possibilities - the belt is falling apart, the tensioner has had it or the pulley is falling apart. All of these mean you should NOT drive the car until it is checked carefully and fixed. If it comes off and becomes wrapped around the pulley, then expect the timing belt to be affected and ... buy a new car. Jaahn is correct here because the pulleys do fall apart when the rubber bonding lets go. However, on this particular engine, I'm fairly sure you can remove the pulley without having to pin anything. This is certainly not the case for the 2.0 HDi after about 2001 and the crank sprocket can turn. In general, it's best to assume you might stuff it up until you are certain you won't!

    If there is no mechanical or electrical reason for the problem, check for fuel entering the engine harness, which has been raised previously.
    Last edited by David S; 29th May 2013 at 11:56 PM.

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    Thanks to all for the advice. Looks like Jason in Hornsby might be the most suitable option. Off to find somewhere I can hire a car trailer to get it down to him now I guess. Ahh the joys of motoring

    Richard

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    jmn
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    I experienced the same thing on my previous '03 C5. The steering drive belt tensioning bracket assembly fell to bits and there was an unholy noise with the engine running. Didn't need a Citroen workshop to fix it; any experienced mechanic could do the job in a couple of hours.

    When the car was examined the mechanic said that it isn't a failure exclusive to Citroen as they had done a few other makes in the past. A few warning lights came on at the time but that was hardly unexpected. Shouldn't be inordinately expensive to fix.

    Good luck!
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    My money would be on the belt breaking or running off and then the battery going flat. Fitting a new belt and tensioner is not too hard, except that you have to take the plastic guards off the inside of the driver's wheel arch to expose the area. Also, the belt can twist on a number of convoluted ways and even after observing it as I take it off, I can never remember which way it goes back on without a fair bit of trial and error.

    If it is the auxiliary belt, then any mechanic could do it.

    Regards, Erik

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    Managed to get a couple of pics of the issue today. Hopefully this will help and either confirm / or not the possible problem so far.

    C5 broke down while daughter driving :(-249091_10152300606291091_1133323940_n.jpgC5 broke down while daughter driving :(-935059_10152300605731091_2124412761_n.jpg

    Thanks again for all the assistance

    Richard

  10. #10
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    EDIT: Don't run the car with the belt half on/off as it is now.

    The belts normally look smooth on the back, not rough and chafed like yours.

    Is the bolt on the damper tight and did the damper wobble when it ran? (After the belt is refitted ...) Mark the pulley across the rubber bonding on the side with liquid paper or paint so you can see if the outer moves relative to the inner.

    There is a one-way clutch in the alternator on this car. Was it vibrating at idle, but OK once you were on the move? If the one-way clutch jams, then it will do this for a while before it eventually flogs the tensioner and belt to death. (A similar thing happens with the very early C5 HDi's that had a double damper and a fixed alternator pulley and some cheapskate fits the cheaper single damper unit!) You want to remove the belt and see if the pulley is jammed or there is a problem with either the A/C compressor or the PS pump. Attached is the belt layout if you want to do this yourself. As far as I know, Citroen only sells a complete alternator ($$$), but it's possible to change just the pulley if you have the part and the tools. If the alternator pulley has had it, another alternator (plus belt and probably the tensioner and roller) may be the easiest option.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails C5 broke down while daughter driving :(-4hx_aux.jpg  
    Last edited by David S; 1st June 2013 at 11:05 PM.

  11. #11
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    Default Loose ?

    Quote Originally Posted by RFLundgren View Post
    Managed to get a couple of pics of the issue today. Hopefully this will help and either confirm / or not the possible problem so far.

    Click image for larger version. 

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    Thanks again for all the assistance

    Richard
    Hi Richard
    Well it is hard to see exactly but it looks like the center bolt is loose and the pulley is allmost off the shaft. I assume we are looking at the crankshaft pulley/damper. At this point you may as well release the belt and remove the pulley to look at the situation. As David said DO NOT START or DRIVE IT.
    The pulley rubber bonding looks OK but it may be damaged in the bore now after running so loose. The shaft key may be damaged or missing too. Check it all carefully as well as the other items driven by the belt. David has given some pointers.

    I would still recommend having a mechanic experienced on these motors do the assembly as they are not tolerant of mistakes. Not like the good old days when any fool could put a motor together and it would run OK.

    Good luck Jaahn

  12. #12
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    In pic 1 the pulley isn't at all parallel to the casting of the sump/engine. Looks like the rubber bonding layer has completely stuffed itself.

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFLundgren View Post
    Managed to get a couple of pics of the issue today. Hopefully this will help and either confirm / or not the possible problem so far.

    Click image for larger version. 

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Views:	531 
Size:	47.7 KB 
ID:	44411Click image for larger version. 

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ID:	44412

    Thanks again for all the assistance

    Richard
    I'd hide the ignition key immediately. It might only take one firing of the engine to get into real trouble. You might have been unbelievably lucky for this not to have failed completely already.
    JohnW

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    Thanks all for your great suggestions. I will take the suggestions that you have posted along with pics to my mechanic and see what he says. For all I know he may say that he does not want to touch it, but we will see on Tuesday.

    Thanks again

    Richard

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    As the others have said, don't run the engine or allow the mechanic to turn it over with the key. It looks like something is seriously wrong with the driveshaft pulley. It holds the timing belt sprocket in place, so if it comes off the timing can come adrift and valves bend, so it pays to be careful.

    Erik

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    Thanks again for all the great advice. It got picked up and towed to my local mechanic on Friday. He is very good and looks after my Patrol for all the things that I cant do, so he will take a look and if he feels that it requires special treatment he will let me know and not touch it. He son did own a Pug so he knows what kind of things to expect.

    Will update once I know more

    Richard

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    Congratulate your daughter for having the sense to stop when she did........you were a sneeze off ruining the motor.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by RFLundgren View Post
    Thanks again for all the great advice. It got picked up and towed to my local mechanic on Friday. He is very good and looks after my Patrol for all the things that I cant do, so he will take a look and if he feels that it requires special treatment he will let me know and not touch it. He son did own a Pug so he knows what kind of things to expect.

    Will update once I know more

    Richard
    Good luck. I wouldn't scare the horses with the mechanic by over-dramatizing though. It is after all only a modern car with the sorts of things that most modern cars have in one way or another. I suspect that a lot of the "oh it's French" stuff is so much nonsense. If a good mechanic can't follow the basics you'd have to worry. A workshop manual wouldn't be a bad idea....
    JohnW

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