That back on the road feeling
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! ntr1972's Avatar
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    Icon10 That back on the road feeling

    My DS 23 Pallas has been on light duties and off the road for the last couple of weeks with a leaking 7 cylinder hydraulic pump issue to solve. I'm pleased to say that tomorrow all will be sorted. Looking forward to it. Funny how a bit of a break from daily driving makes you appreciate the timeless classic these cars have become. (Until the next time something goes wrong). The side-benefit of trying to source parts is the people that you meet on the way, that genuinely want to help. Cheers.

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  2. #2
    Fellow Frogger! Bruce Llewellyn's Avatar
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    'Preventative maintenance' only does half the job on these old gadgets.

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Llewellyn View Post
    'Preventative maintenance' only does half the job on these old gadgets.
    Hi Bruce,

    i saw on an old thread that your ID19 is very close in type and age to mine, and the same colour code 6761. Is it the one in your avatar (sadly if so)? Can we share some information about them, what are your plans for it, etc?

    Mine is nominally a 66 model Heidelberg car, the ex-dogboy one that is shiwn on the nuancierds site - photos by Andrew Murray (said dogboy).
    regards,
    Mark (leconte)

    ps ntr1972 sorry for the hijack....i've been meaning to 'ping' bruce for a while since I saw the info on AF of his ID19 body plate.
    1962 Heidelberg ID19 "Axel"
    1965 Heidelberg ID19
    half owner 1974 GS 1220 Convertisseur Break

  4. #4
    Fellow Frogger! deesse's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ntr1972 View Post
    My DS 23 Pallas has been on light duties and off the road for the last couple of weeks with a leaking 7 cylinder hydraulic pump issue to solve. I'm pleased to say that tomorrow all will be sorted. Looking forward to it. Funny how a bit of a break from daily driving makes you appreciate the timeless classic these cars have become. (Until the next time something goes wrong). The side-benefit of trying to source parts is the people that you meet on the way, that genuinely want to help. Cheers.
    Hi .... Hope you get your DS back running as well as you hope it will be. I know what you mean about missing them when they are away. A bit like kids. I looks like a beauty. Is that the one formerly owned by Colin in SA?
    cheers Tony

  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger! ntr1972's Avatar
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    Leconte no worries about hijacking the thread.
    Deesse my car was in Canberra for 99% of its life.
    Unfortunately it was not ready to collect and my mechanic doesn't work on Fridays. Have to wait over the weekend. Oh well it gives me a chance to clean the LHM off the driveway.

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! ntr1972's Avatar
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    All going well for the last few days until now. Driving along, turned on the wipers and they stop half way across the windscreen and the orange battery light turns on the dash. I pull over suspecting a loose wire. Can't find anything loose and now the whole system is dead eg turn on the ignition and nothing - not even the clock is ticking. I'm thinking total battery failure ??

  7. #7
    VIP Sponsor richo's Avatar
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    Earth terminal on battery tight and correctly earthed? Positive terminal?

    Now you have no dash lights? Is you battery flat? Checked voltage?

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! ntr1972's Avatar
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    Battery dead, but when on jumper leads no power back to fuses. Would that be because the cell in battery has died?

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    VIP Sponsor richo's Avatar
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    Checked for power at the ignition switch?

    How did you confirm that a cell has failed? I'm assuming you have a voltmeter if that's the case.

  10. #10
    Fellow Frogger! ntr1972's Avatar
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    How do you check power at the ignition - remove panels?

  11. #11
    VIP Sponsor richo's Avatar
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    You have to get to the switch.
    Diagnosis is difficult using this method of communication. An auto elec. or someone experienced will work this out in a jiffy.

  12. #12
    Fellow Frogger! ntr1972's Avatar
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    Yep cheers Richo

  13. #13
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richo View Post
    You have to get to the switch.
    Diagnosis is difficult using this method of communication. An auto elec. or someone experienced will work this out in a jiffy.
    And, just like saying the name Betelgeuse 3 times, I pop up. And let me tell ya, this fat ol' sack of bones doesn't pop very easily.
    Hi there!

    Let's see if we can get a few things straightened out:
    First of all, we are talking about a 23, correct? That would be, what, '72 and later? BVM, BVH or BVA (this probably won't make much difference, but still....)? OK, NTR, your initial query:
    Driving along, turned on the wipers and they stop half way across the windscreen and the orange battery light turns on the dash. I pull over suspecting a loose wire. Can't find anything loose and now the whole system is dead eg turn on the ignition and nothing - not even the clock is ticking. I'm thinking total battery failure ??


    Possible on the battery failure, but let's take a tour around your engine compartment first. No point in replacing a 150.00 battery if you don't need to. My thought is the charge circuit failed somewhere along the line. So, let's check a few things. There are four connections on the regulator: stator, rotor, light, and ignition. If the light (red) one comes adrift, well, you won't have any light is all. Stupid, but not catastrophic. The other 3 will cause the charge circuit to shut down. The ignition is the purple sleeved 1/4" female. Stator is the yellow ring. Rotor is the white ring. Check these connections, and make sure they're tight. Check carefully for broken wires.

    Go to the alternator. There are three connections: a 6mm ring which is your output, a 4mm ring which is your rotor, and a 1/4" spade which is your stator. Make sure the connections are tight, and again, check for broken wires.

    Trickle charge your battery, and test it once the charge is complete. You should see 12.3-12.7 or so volts.

    Go to the starter solenoid. Make sure that the 6mm ring terminal on the charge wire (a 10gauge line) is firmly attached. Ensure the line isn't broken.

    Battery dead, but when on jumper leads no power back to fuses. Would that be because the cell in battery has died?


    No- that's not indicative of a bad cell. A fully charged jumper battery should bring everything else back on line, even if only for a short while. A Bad cell will show up either under a timed load test (it will discharge rapidly and have no reserve), or when the battery will charge no further than 8.5 volts.

    How do you check power at the ignition - remove panels?



    Before you go to the trouble of removing the instrument cluster, check, with a fully charged battery, the red, green, and blue fuses. You should see battery voltage on these 3. Make sure when you hook the battery up that there are no large sparks, smoke, or anything amiss.

    To check for power at the ignition switch, you have to remove the instrument cluster. Undo the speedo cable under the hood (on ours, it's a connection right next to the coil. On RHD, I'm assuming the same, but....). Then, remove the 4 screws that mount the cluster. Be extremely careful- those corners break if you just look at them sideways. I recommend removing the top of the steering pod first to make this easier. Once there, disconnect the 3 connectors and the speedo cable. There might also be a fiber optic going from the cluster to the ignition switch- a Pallas piece. Now, you can look for a white, 6-pin plug, +2 loose leads if your car is BVM. The 6 wires are:

    1) black wire, no color sleeve: output from the "green" fuse
    2) yellow wire, green sleeve: output from the "red" fuse
    3) black wire, red sleeve: direct battery input
    4) yellow wire, no color sleeve: out to voltage regulator, backup lamps, rear defroster, and turn signals
    5) yellow wire, mauve sleeve: out to instrument cluster, wiper motor, wiper switch, heater fan
    6) black wire, blue sleeve: out to coil +

    You shouldn't need to worry about the 2 loose wires (brown and white), they're for the start portion of your ignition switch.

    The first three are your concern. Hook up the battery, make sure nothing is amiss when you do, and check for battery + on those 3. If you get battery voltage here, then you should be seeing battery voltage at the red, green, and blue fuses.


    Now- if you do not see battery voltage at the fusebox or the ignition switch, the problem is deeper- possibly a broken charge line. Get through all this other stuff, and report back. The problem is fixable, but you're going to have to dig a bit.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  14. #14
    VIP Sponsor richo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hotrodelectric View Post
    And, just like saying the name Betelgeuse 3 times, I pop up. And let me tell ya, this fat ol' sack of bones doesn't pop very easily.
    Hi there!

    Let's see if we can get a few things straightened out:
    First of all, we are talking about a 23, correct? That would be, what, '72 and later? BVM, BVH or BVA (this probably won't make much difference, but still....)? OK, NTR, your initial query:

    Now- if you do not see battery voltage at the fusebox or the ignition switch, the problem is deeper- possibly a broken charge line. Get through all this other stuff, and report back. The problem is fixable, but you're going to have to dig a bit.

    Thanks Bill,
    It's difficult when the owner thinks you know the exact spec of the car without writing the details.
    If the regulator or alternator has been changed from original, it will be different.

    My bet is with you, the charging from the alternator ( a wire broken/disconnected/no contact), or the main power from the battery.

  15. #15
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by richo View Post
    Thanks Bill,
    It's difficult when the owner thinks you know the exact spec of the car without writing the details.
    If the regulator or alternator has been changed from original, it will be different.

    My bet is with you, the charging from the alternator ( a wire broken/disconnected/no contact), or the main power from the battery.
    Yah, everything he's stating almost leads me to believe that. On his car, in fact all 3-dial Ds the charge wire makes one grand loop from the alternator, back towards the firewall, and returns to the battery. All the missing power he notes comes from that loop in the form of several taps. I'm thinking the line broke, and he had been running on battery up to the point his car finally quit.
    The measure of your character isn't what you do when people are watching- it's what you do when they aren't watching.

  16. #16
    Fellow Frogger! ntr1972's Avatar
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    Thanks hotrod and Richo, you guys are so helpful - really appreciate the comments.

    so, what happened?

    well as you know during the week the hydraulic pump was replaced on my car, so quite a few elbows were under the bonnet. Somehow, someone has bent the two (at the time uninsulated) connectors at the base of my wiper washer motor, so they touch. When I turned the wipers on this afternoon I also used the washer, which didn't work, so I thought it was out of water... Then the dash lit up and I pulled over.

    So because the connectors were bent together it blew a fuse that is also connected to the ignition.... Not sure if this is how it should be, but anyway, everything is now fine, with the washer connectors now insulated so it won't happen again!

    once again, thanks for the help.

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