DS2/23 D-Jetronic injectors
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger
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    Default DS21/23 D-Jetronic injectors

    I'm sorting out the injection rail for a DS23 at the moment and I want to replace the regulator and possibly the injectors. So ...

    1) Fuel regulator 0280160004: Who has bought one recently and where did it come from? (Harrison?) The usual suspects probably have one, but it doesn't show in their online catalogues. Thought I'd ask here before e-mailing anyone.

    2) Bosch injector 0280150003: Some claim these are dangerous and should be replaced to prevent fires. 0280150036 and 0280150043 would fit and the car in question had two 003 and two 043 fitted and had run OK for some time with this combination. I've never found a definitive explanation as to why 003 is regarded as dangerous. They were the original equipment item and many cars would still be using them without drama if the hoses have been changed every decade or so. Unless they have a reputation for cracking or leaking somewhere, the only aspect of the 003 injectors I could point to is the barb to take the hose, which has just one ridge at the top. I have previously fitted a set of 036 injectors to a DS23 because the original injectors had been 'borrowed' for another car some years prior and needed to be replaced.

    I'm not sure if the hoses were originally crimped on (they were on the Volvo 164, not on V12 Jags) and may have been more likely to leak as a result in old age, but that's irrelevant these days. The 036 and 043 injectors have a double ridge barb and the hose is meant to be pushed on and into a shallow ferule, not clamped as with the 003 injectors. The same single ridge barb was used on other cars like early EFI V12 Jaguars and the injectors themselves have never been claimed to be inherently dangerous, but the condition and clamping of the hoses is known to be critical in avoiding a flambe Jag.

    Overall, I'm thinking the issue is one of hose deterioration with the outcome being unfairly blamed on the early style 003 injector. Any thoughts?

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    Last edited by David S; 18th April 2013 at 07:02 PM.

  2. #2
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    David, your wish is my command.

    I got mine from Der Franzose. I'm happy with it, seems to do the job . Don't forget if your order is from out of the EU you will pay less than the quoted price as they will subtract the vat.

    http://www.franzose.de/en/Citroen-DS...etze/ANR30209/
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  3. #3
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    Thanks. Missed their listing.

    Which injectors is your car using?
    Last edited by David S; 18th April 2013 at 07:31 PM.

  4. #4
    Thank God for my Hydroen harrisson_citroen's Avatar
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    David,

    So far I haven't had the need to look at the injectors. But will do on the weekend, is there any way to differentiate them externally?
    DS Un jour, DS toujours !

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  5. #5
    Fellow Frogger
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    There are numbers on the side of the plastic portion of the injector that the wire plugs into. If it's got a pushed on hose with no clamp and a ferule at the bottom, it's not going to be an 003. Some of the injectors that originally had a pushed on hose and ferule will nor just have the hose clamped on.

  6. #6
    skp
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    Indeed, the major problem is with the deterioration of the hoses. The injectors are fine. They can also be replaced with injectors from a .... VK (???) Commodore. ( Check with your local injector specialist for the same size and output. ) My CX Gti is doing well on these. The DS 23 efi still has the original injectors, and I replace the hoses every 5 years or so, on both.

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  7. #7
    Now go make me a sandwich Hotrodelectric's Avatar
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    David- I think the whole problem was with the hoses, not with the injector itself. The claims of dangerous operation came later, when age and the attendant problems showed up.

    I would be careful about replacement hoses and how they attach. The system is under a fair amount of pressure, and even the slightest nick in the hose barb can cause a big leak.
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  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! CorneSoutAfrica's Avatar
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    I have the ........043 injectors in my EFI. Orinigal hoses was crimped on but I took them off and used modern fuel hose with a good quality clamp. I haven't used my car much (still under restoration) But the times the car did run I had no leaks. If possible replace the plastic hose running from the fuel tank to the injectors and back with new lines. The plastic hoses are almost 40 years old.... Rather safe than sorry. Bill I remember looking through EFI manuals and the problem was the factory crimping of the rubber pipe wasn't sufficient and it started to leak..

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  9. #9
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Be careful with the impedance of the injectors. Does the DS have series resistors feeding the injectors, I suspect they do. CX 2400ie have series resistors feeding low impedance injectors, CX 2500ie have none but have high impedance injectors. Swap these around and you can tell the difference, subtle but definitely better with the right injector
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  10. #10
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I'd alwasy assumed they were "bad" as they leaked from the body of the injector. If it's just the hose ... Who cares just replace them with good quality clamps (ie: *not* worm drive).

    The DS injectors are permanently earthed, and you feed them 12volts. The CX's are always live and the computer earths them. I have no idea with regards to resisters being in series. It would be easy enough to check by using a volt meter on a running car. < 12volts when the injector is powered would mean there a voltage divider resister in there.

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  11. #11
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    Thanks for the thoughts so far. I was hoping to clear up some apparent mis-information about the allegedly 'dangerous' 003 injectors. In the absence of anything definitively wrong with the injector, changing just the hoses should be quite enough.

    Choosing the correct type and size of hose and the right clamps is also important. Everyone will have their own thoughts, but here's my take on it.

    Use proper EFI clamps, for example the Norma brand clip or similar. The common perforated band hose clamps work, but cut the hose as you tighten them, look ugly and tend not to tighten in an even band. Proper EFI clamps are simply better, but they have more specific size ranges and an oversize clip will not secure the hose properly even when fully tightened.

    Plenty of people seem to think generic imperial hose is fine as a push on fit on the double ridge barbs, often 5/16th EFI hose, which is approximately 7.9mm. That should be OK with the single ridge barb and clamped at both ends. However, I wouldn't use it on the double ridge barbs as they are supposed to take a push on fit without a clamp and I've had them leak after a couple of years using the 5/16th hose. Jaguar supply an expensive length of 7.0mm hose (really a press fit) specifically for this job on the V12 and that's the stuff I'd happily use with a ferule on 036 or 043 injectors except that getting it on the DS rail seems too difficult. Most recently, I used a 7.3mm ID biofuel hose (Cohline) pushed on to the 036 injectors with a ferule and clamped at the rail end. I'll probably use the 003 injectors this time, but 036 injectors are readily available new and used if needed.
    Last edited by David S; 19th April 2013 at 02:53 PM.

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    Shane, I think the resistors are the to limit the current flow with low impedance injectors. Much simpler to have the right impedance at the injector so you can ditch the resistor bank.
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  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    Shane, I think the resistors are the to limit the current flow with low impedance injectors. Much simpler to have the right impedance at the injector so you can ditch the resistor bank.
    Yeah, so you dont' burn out the injectors..... the injector coil and the external resister will still share the 12volts dropped across them. So if the injectors are designed for running without a external resister they should drop 12volts across them (well maybe 1.4volts less as I'm sure they'll be driven by a transistor or power FET somewhere).

    seeya,
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

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  14. #14
    Fellow Frogger
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    For D-Jet, I understood it was 3 Volts supplied to the injectors. Is it 12 in the CX, which is obviously not D-Jet?

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