Whats that hose? Oil Filter change and Cooling Issues 2000 xSara 1.8
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Default Whats that hose? Oil Filter change and Cooling Issues 2000 xSara 1.8

    Hey all.

    After weeks of slow progress I've finally decided to see if anyone who has half an idea of european cars can help me out.

    A brief backstory. The car is a 00' Citroen xSara 1.8 5 door hatch. It was my grand mothers car and was last serviced by a bunch of fools whom don't know european cars, they have done more damage to it than it had when going in. As a result it has been sitting un-used for around 8 months.

    I don't have any real skills in mechanics, just learning as I'm going along. As I read, one of the first things to do with a car that hasn't been driven for awhile is to change the fluids, check seals and gaskets. This what I'm doing and have run into the following issues:

    1. Whats this hose?
    I found the hose shown in the picture has cracked where is connects to the engine (lower in the photograph). Luckily there is a clamp that I've used to tighten it where it connects but id like to replace it if its important. I also found a small amount of oil round the connection. Could this hose be causing the cooling problems (read below)?

    Whats that hose? Oil Filter change and Cooling Issues 2000 xSara 1.8-img_1528.jpg

    2. Oil Filter Change
    I drained the old oil without any problems and purchased a compatible filter. However, when I went to replace it I found no simple way to remove the old oil filter with a standard oil filter wrench. This oil filter is basically sitting in a void that looks like this

    |##|
    |##|
    | O |
    -----

    Coming up from the bottom isn't possible but it might be possible to remove most of the hoses that are sitting to the right of the oil filter which would give me access. The issue there is they are using a clamp and I can't figure out how to undo it. Here are photos of the oil filter location and clamps on the hoses to the right of the filter.

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    Whats that hose? Oil Filter change and Cooling Issues 2000 xSara 1.8-img_1417.jpgWhats that hose? Oil Filter change and Cooling Issues 2000 xSara 1.8-img_1534.jpg

    I wouldn't have thought changing a filter would require removing a number of other components. If you have any other suggestions on removing it that would be great.

    3. Cooling
    I've flushed the radiator but found that the fans are turning on only when the car hits 115º. The first thing I went to replace was the thermostat which turned out to be working. Nonetheless I put in a new thermostat that didn't fix the problem. The strange thing here is that the fans do come on and run high but only when the car is well past the optimum temperature. The fact they turn on suggests to me that:
    • The fan switch works
    • The fan relay switch works
    • The fans themselves work
    • The thermostat is working
    • The fuse is fine

    When they do come on the car is generally 5º out of the red zone and the coolant can't be cooled fast enough so the temperature continues to rise but slower. At this point I'll switch the car off and open the hood to let it cool down. The fans continue to run until the car has cooled.

    Any suggestions would be much appreciated. I have researched a a bit of this stuff as I have no skills but I feel these problems don't require a mechanic and could be fixed with a bit of direction.

    Look forward to hearing some responses. If anything isn't clear let me know and I'll try clear it up.

    Thanks
    Last edited by Joonseh; 17th April 2013 at 03:56 PM.

  2. #2
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Hi Joonseh,

    Welcome to

    The red hose is the intake hose, from the air filter to the throttle body. It's usually oily because crankcase gasses from the engine are redirected into the intake hose in an attempt to be environmentally friendly.

    As for the oil filter - you need to source a new oil filter wrench. A claw or cup-style wrench is best - strap wrenches are not that good. With a decent wrench, there will be no need to remove anything else. In fact, I first bought a claw-type wrench when I bought my 306 (which shares the same engine).

    or

    Does the car have air-con? Do the fans run when air con is switched on? This may be a short-term way of keeping the car cool until you sort out the issue.

    The XSara fans are pretty similar in set-up to the Peugeot 306. There's a pretty good description of how it all works here.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

  3. #3
    UFO
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    There must have been an engine change after 1999 as the engine bay of yours looks unlike ours.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  4. #4
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joonseh View Post





    3. Cooling
    I've flushed the radiator but found that the fans are turning on only when the car hits 115º.
    When they do come on the car is generally 5º out of the red zone and the coolant can't be cooled fast enough so the temperature continues to rise but slower. At this point I'll switch the car off and open the hood to let it cool down. The fans continue to run until the car has cooled.

    Any suggestions would be much appreciated. I have researched a a bit of this stuff as I have no skills but I feel these problems don't require a mechanic and could be fixed with a bit of direction.

    Look forward to hearing some responses. If anything isn't clear let me know and I'll try clear it up.

    Thanks
    Hi and welcome

    Just a thought. . .

    Did you fully bleed the cooling system? If not you will need to. I use a 2ltr plastic drink bottle with the bottom cut off, open the three bleed points - one on the top of the radiator (right side as you look at the car from the front) the second is on the thermostat housing and the third on the firewall where the heater hoses pass through. If possible a second pair of hands to hold the upturned bottle into the radiator filler. With the engine running start pouring coolant into the bottle, as each of the bleed points starts running with coolant close it off.


    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  5. #5
    UFO
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    Another question - did you put the thermostat in the right way round?
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

  6. #6
    Fellow Frogger! Clogzz's Avatar
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    Looks like a low fan speed fault.
    Open the relay box to see what they're doing.

    Whats that hose? Oil Filter change and Cooling Issues 2000 xSara 1.8-fan_relay.jpg Whats that hose? Oil Filter change and Cooling Issues 2000 xSara 1.8-fan_relay_socket.jpg
    2003 C5 2.0i AL4 205,000 km 76372389

  7. #7
    Tadpole
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    The red hose is the intake hose, from the air filter to the throttle body. It's usually oily because crankcase gasses from the engine are redirected into the intake hose in an attempt to be environmentally friendly.
    Thanks I've simply tightened the clamp for the time being until the other issues are sorted. I figured it was related to the air intake as a could see the air filter inside.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    As for the oil filter - you need to source a new oil filter wrench.
    Too easy, grabbed a new wrench yesterday and fitted the new filter today.

    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Does the car have air-con? Do the fans run when air con is switched on? This may be a short-term way of keeping the car cool until you sort out the issue.
    Great suggestion. Yes it has aircon and turning it on full as soon as I start the car kicks the fans on, they run at say a medium speed. I had thought I found a temporary solution as the temperature rose slower than usual but it did surpass 83º and kept going straight for the red at 120º until I turned the car off which then it ran the fans until it cooled down.

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    Did you fully bleed the cooling system?
    From your description, I don't believe I did. I simply flushed the radiator buy opening the release valve, draining it, running water through it then filling it back up. Since then I have replaced the thermostat and its housing after noticing a crack. Is bleeding necessary? I believe I can find the first point on the radiator, the second on the thermostat but not near the firewall.

    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Another question - did you put the thermostat in the right way round?
    I believe so. I put it in the same as the the previous one. The spring pointing inwards to the engine and not inwards to the hose.

    Quote Originally Posted by Clogzz View Post
    Looks like a low fan speed fault. Open the relay box to see what they're doing.
    Bugger was really hoping you were on to it there but went and had a look at the relay box all three (left, right and change over) fuses and their sockets look in perfect working condition. The fans never seem to really kick in and speed up to high.

    So far the most revealing thing is that with the air con turned on thus turning fans on to a medium speed it still didn't really have much of an effect at maintaining the heat. However, they never hit a high speed even as the temperature went above 100º.

    Btw, thanks for the link to http://www.peugeotlogic.com/workshop...an2/fanop1.htm I've only skimmed it but it looks like a great piece of information. Will look it in detail next week.

    Thanks for the welcoming the and the responses so far. It's much appreciated.

  8. #8
    sans witticism SLC206's Avatar
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    Yes, bleeding it properly is definitely necessary - I'd say it's one of the main sources of overheating issues on these motors.

    The last bleed point should be on one of the hoses that goes to the heater matrix - through the firewall, so at the back of the engine bay. It looks a bit like a tyre valve cap - small and black and easily dropped.
    Regards,

    Simon

    2018 308 GTi 2011 DS3 DSport
    ----
    2014 208 GTi 2007 207 GTi 2004 206 GTi180 2000 206 GTi 1995 306 XT

    www.peugeotclub.asn.au

  9. #9
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SLC206 View Post
    Yes, bleeding it properly is definitely necessary - I'd say it's one of the main sources of overheating issues on these motors.

    The last bleed point should be on one of the hoses that goes to the heater matrix - through the firewall, so at the back of the engine bay. It looks a bit like a tyre valve cap - small and black and easily dropped.

    Here's one I prepared earlier, the knurled cap with the green paint.



    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  10. #10
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    It's probably just the temp sensor on the radiator - they have three wire and send a signal out at the two different temps.

    Test simply by bridging the connections (someone with access to a xsara book can tell you which one is the medium and high signal leads). Start by cleaning the connection on the plug.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Radiator-...ht_1792wt_1398

  11. #11
    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Haakon View Post
    It's probably just the temp sensor on the radiator - they have three wire and send a signal out at the two different temps.

    Test simply by bridging the connections (someone with access to a xsara book can tell you which one is the medium and high signal leads). Start by cleaning the connection on the plug.

    http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Radiator-...ht_1792wt_1398
    If there is air in the system the bottom of the radiator will get very hot, the top cool. The sensor will cause the fans to operate to little effect. You first need to bleed the system correctly, if there is still a problem then sure further checks are required.

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
    08 C5 X7 HDi very Noir



    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

    The Déesse has all the characteristics of one of those objects fallen from another universe that fed the mania for novelty in the eighteenth century and a similar mania expressed by modern science fiction: the Déesse is first and foremost the new Nautilus.

    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

  12. #12
    1000+ Posts Haakon's Avatar
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    ? Not sure about these xsaras, but If the sensor is in the radiator it's either getting coolant passed by it or it's not.

    An air bleed issue will mean the pump doesn't work as they don't pump air well. If the pump is pumping, it's pumping. If the sensor is seeing enough hot coolant to kick onto the high setting, it should have seen the lower temperature coolant sometime beforehand.

    Happy to be corrected if I'm missing something...?
    I tried to drown my sorrows in alcohol, but the bastards learnt how to swim

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