Tow hook didn't work?
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default Tow hook didn't work?

    So who was it who lost their front end being towed onto a tow truck in SA last week?

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    Erik

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  3. #3
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    Only pics were taken by the tow truck driver. they revealed a strut through the bonnet - would suggest a Xantia or XM - so probably Xantia. Area is Adelaide Hills. The car was being winched onto the truck via the tow hook when the whole front end came off and the poor RAA man was left to chase the errant Citroen down the road, climb into the drivers seat, stab foot onto brake pedal, with no result and a few minutes later (still steering in reverse), find the handbrake under the dash somewhere and bring the whole thing to a stop. Now being asked to pay costs.

    If this was you, then kindly admit to having driven for some time with a loss of hydraulic fluid, resulting in the front bumping along the ground for several kilometers, before admitting defeat and calling the RAA. Not his fault and the admin bastards are telling him he should not be using the towhook to winch a car on???? Go figure? Assuming I am right and it was already low to the ground (otherwise why would the brakes not work), then how are you supposed to attach a tow hook to anything else???

    Give the guy a break. His Mum has just died and he is being taken to the cleaners by the administrator and has a few other problems, without a Citroen owner trying to blame him for something that they contributed to.

    There you go, i have had my rant now...
    Erik

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikbm View Post
    Only pics were taken by the tow truck driver. they revealed a strut through the bonnet - would suggest a Xantia or XM - so probably Xantia. Area is Adelaide Hills. The car was being winched onto the truck via the tow hook when the whole front end came off and the poor RAA man was left to chase the errant Citroen down the road, climb into the drivers seat, stab foot onto brake pedal, with no result and a few minutes later (still steering in reverse), find the handbrake under the dash somewhere and bring the whole thing to a stop. Now being asked to pay costs.

    If this was you, then kindly admit to having driven for some time with a loss of hydraulic fluid, resulting in the front bumping along the ground for several kilometers, before admitting defeat and calling the RAA. Not his fault and the admin bastards are telling him he should not be using the towhook to winch a car on???? Go figure? Assuming I am right and it was already low to the ground (otherwise why would the brakes not work), then how are you supposed to attach a tow hook to anything else???

    Give the guy a break. His Mum has just died and he is being taken to the cleaners by the administrator and has a few other problems, without a Citroen owner trying to blame him for something that they contributed to.

    There you go, i have had my rant now...
    Erik
    That's an extraordinarily unhappy situation. Did you give the RAA man your details?
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    JBN
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    I can't cost the tow truck company much. Xantia in going condition - about $3000.

    Xantia with strut through bonnet (the condition the tow truck operator found it in) - about $100.

    Xantia with strut through bonnet AND front end pulled off - about $150 (saves Martin Bray dismantling front end).

    Charge the owner $50 and leave the car where it is.

    Geez, Citroen owners are always whinging.

    John

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    If this car, which was probably an XM if the park brake is under the dash, had a strut failure, then there is a chance that the failure also damaged the pressure line to the strut which therefore would enable the whole system to rapidly lose pressure. Further if the car had sat for some time between when the failure occurred and when the tow attempt happened - regardless of damaged lines - then there would have been hydraulic pressure loss.

    If I recall, there is only one welded tow hook on the front of an XM, and if the car was dragging on the ground due to the failed strut, there would be extra stresses on that tow hook.

    Just my take on it having owned an XM for some years.
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    Am I understanding this properly- the car was driving along, which then had a strut mount failure. I can guess there was already considerable damage to the front, well beyond the usual destroyed hood. Dude kept driving, damaging the car even further. Somehow, the RAA tow driver is liable? I don't get it. Here in the US, a car that badly damaged to begin with is hauled off, and usually the tow driver held immune to damage such as pulling off the front bumper. The primary thing is get the wreck off the road.

    Dude is extremely lucky tow driver was able to stop the car at all once it broke loose. Instead of asking for damages, I'd be buying him a beer.
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnW View Post
    That's an extraordinarily unhappy situation. Did you give the RAA man your details?
    Yes John, with as many strange cars as I have, the RAA man and I are very familiar with each other.

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    I got the story 2nd hand from the RAA guy and the photos he showed me weren't of the whole car, so I was guessing as to what happened, but the last two scenarios would seem most likely. He definitely said the handbrake was not in the middle, but was under the dash - so an XM? - although he thought it was a small car, which it would be hard to call the XM as.

    Yes it was a welded tow hook at the base of the bumper.
    Erik

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikbm View Post
    I got the story 2nd hand from the RAA guy and the photos he showed me weren't of the whole car, so I was guessing as to what happened, but the last two scenarios would seem most likely. He definitely said the handbrake was not in the middle, but was under the dash - so an XM? - although he thought it was a small car, which it would be hard to call the XM as.

    Yes it was a welded tow hook at the base of the bumper.
    Erik

    Isn't the tow hook welded onto the lower part of the chassis? If it broke off doesn't that mean a dodgy repair in the past? I think a past panel beater might have a few questions to answer too.
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    If it was an XM, it could have pulled the nose cone off if the welded towing eye let go and the truck's hook caught on the bar. It might look a bit more dramatic than the true degree of damage. The 'handbrake' of the XM is actually a pedal though, not an umbrella handle thingy.

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    JBN
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    Maybe it WAS a Xantia, and the "handbrake being under the dash" was probably rectified when the front end (including dash) was pulled forward, resulting in the handbrake being back between the front seats. The tow truck operator should have charged extra for the straightening of the chassis.

    John

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    Happened to me on my 405 ,car had had some front end damage many moons ago ,hit a roo before my time,the plate with the tow eye attached was holding by one spot weld, as it was being pulled onto the flat top the weld let go ,as the plate was bigger than the hole in the skirt it pulled thye skirt right off ,i was told that the car rolled down the road and hit a parked car ,with the tow bar ,i arrived home to find the skirt in the back and no other damage, could have killed someone pugs

  14. #14
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    What sort of moron uses damaged tow hooks Surely anyone with half a brain would tie onto the lower arms (or anywhere sound enough to pull the car from).

    seeya
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    How would you get to the lower arms if it was a Citroen which was down onto its haunches because it lost all of its dragon blood?

    Erik

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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikbm View Post
    How would you get to the lower arms if it was a Citroen which was down onto its haunches because it lost all of its dragon blood?

    Erik
    Happened with my D today and the towie knew exactly what to do. Mind you it is probably easier to get to the arms on a D than an XM.
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Erikbm View Post
    How would you get to the lower arms if it was a Citroen which was down onto its haunches because it lost all of its dragon blood?

    Erik
    pull it on from the undamaged end .... used the damage pulls to *just* get the front wheels onto the tray so you can see underneath, chock the wheels and tie to somewhere stronger before you pull all the way onto the tray ..... There would be a 101 ways to do this rather than risk a run-away car
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    pull it on from the undamaged end .... used the damage pulls to *just* get the front wheels onto the tray so you can see underneath, chock the wheels and tie to somewhere stronger before you pull all the way onto the tray ..... There would be a 101 ways to do this rather than risk a run-away car
    Problem is Shane that cars like the Xantia and 405 the tow hooks are behind the bumper and out of sight. The towie needs to shift the car asap and doesn't have time to inspect the welding of the hook so he just pulls away.

    At the end of the day who is responsable if your car is faulty. I think you are or the panel beater or maybe even the people who last serviced it but it's hard to blame the towie.
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Cavanagh View Post
    Problem is Shane that cars like the Xantia and 405 the tow hooks are behind the bumper and out of sight. The towie needs to shift the car asap and doesn't have time to inspect the welding of the hook so he just pulls away.

    At the end of the day who is responsable if your car is faulty. I think you are or the panel beater or maybe even the people who last serviced it but it's hard to blame the towie.
    Were talking after accident damage aren't we?? I've seen the way those hooks are welded onto XM's .... They would never fail unless severely damaged. You'd stick a sling through the front windows and drag it by a part of the car that isn't going to tear off before you winched from the accident damaged part.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    Were talking after accident damage aren't we?? I've seen the way those hooks are welded onto XM's .... They would never fail unless severely damaged. You'd stick a sling through the front windows and drag it by a part of the car that isn't going to tear off before you winched from the accident damaged part.

    seeya,
    Shane L.

    Yes and no. These hooks are the tie down hooks they ship the car here on. They tie them down to the ship with them so there certainly strong enough to hold a car but by the sound of it these cars have been repaired and not welded properly.
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    I don't see the big deal with all of this. The tow truck operator was sent to the scene to collect a wrecked car.

    He delivered a wrecked car to his depot.

    [OK, he may have embellished the "wrecking" bit, but some people are over achievers. At least the insurance company would have been in no doubt that the vehicle was damaged, maybe written off].

    John

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    My car had broken a cam belt after only 8 k ,it had no damage ,the second owner had hit a roo on the nullabor years ago ,as far as i know that was the only time it had been repaired ,the eye is welded to a plate which was welded to the chasis right up under the car, i could tell it was holding by one spot as that was the only shiny metal on the plate moral of the story, check your towing eyes ,pu

  23. #23
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    The car wasn't in an accident, but needed a tow to a repairer. i am guessing they ran out or fluid and or popped a strut through the bonnet, decided it was wisest to stop and then called for a tow.

    Erik

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    Are you sure it was not a GS?

    Please note: I'm incorporated in the State of Victoria and maybe SA does things different.

    As the owner of a small transport company i can insure you once a contract is negotiated such as a tow or taxi fare the onus is on the company hired to ensure the well being of any load or person. Your towie mate i assume is employed by a towing company who hold their own form of indemnity and/or load insurance for any such issue.

    Regretfully if the car had rolled though a house or worse, the police would not be talking to the car owner, but the towie, who had been hired (for renumeration) to load the car onto his truck, this also means safely.

    Why was the car not chocked at the rear with 2X4's? every towie has them.

    The good news is that no one was hurt and the car damaged to the degree it was before the tow would be worth little.

    Also remember if the tow was completed then the contract was also completed. Offer the wreak value minus the tow cost to reach the figure of agreement.

    Though always taking someones money sounds good in business, times will occur the other way, like yesterday when i paid a parking ticket knowing i was being scammed by the council. I saw the parking officer booking me from the comfort of his duel cab, while i WAS legally parked and getting the ticket 10 days later in the mail. The cost to pay the ticket just over $140.00 the price to pay to fight it in court 3 times as much (salary lost etc etc) exactly what the council is hoping on.

    I know this post will not comfort you, but to be in business never is.
    Last edited by flipperman; 21st March 2013 at 08:55 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by flipperman View Post
    Are you sure it was not a GS?

    Please note: I'm incorporated in the State of Victoria and maybe SA does things different.

    As the owner of a small transport company i can insure you once a contract is negotiated such as a tow or taxi fare the onus is on the company hired to ensure the well being of any load or person. Your towie mate i assume is employed by a towing company who hold their own form of indemnity and/or load insurance for any such issue.

    Regretfully if the car had rolled though a house or worse, the police would not be talking to the car owner, but the towie, who had been hired (for renumeration) to load the car onto his truck, this also means safely.

    Why was the car not chocked at the rear with 2X4's? every towie has them.

    The good news is that no one was hurt and the car damaged to the degree it was before the tow would be worth little.

    Also remember if the tow was completed then the contract was also completed. Offer the wreak value minus the tow cost to reach the figure of agreement.

    Though always taking someones money sounds good in business, times will occur the other way, like yesterday when i paid a parking ticket knowing i was being scammed by the council. I saw the parking officer booking me from the comfort of his duel cab, while i WAS legally parked and getting the ticket 10 days later in the mail. The cost to pay the ticket just over $140.00 the price to pay to fight it in court 3 times as much (salary lost etc etc) exactly what the council is hoping on.

    I know this post will not comfort you, but to be in business never is.
    That sucks doesn't it. I can understand if the towie hooked the up wrongly but both these cars were break downs not accidents so any towie would presume its safe to winch up on the factory fitted tow hooks.
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