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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger!
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    Default New CX Owner

    Hello Folks,

    Well i've been on the lookout for a cheap bx or cx to play with for the last year or two and i've finally picked up something I can tinker with and ease myself into older Citroen ownership. I'm no stranger to classic cars and own quite an eclectic mix but apart from my C5 which doesn't count , this is my first "real" Citroen.

    It's a 76 CX Super manual with 71,000 klms.
    Some of you no doubt saw it on ebay not too long ago. It was reasonably close to me so I went to inspect and a deal was struck. Much to my wifes dismay!

    The car has been sitting for 10 years, and would only run with fuel poured straight into the carby bowl. I got it on a trailer this way and have spent the last week sorting it out to the point where it now starts and runs quite well. I am yet to drive it yet other than on and off the trailer though. The problem was the fuel lines coming from the tank were soft and spongy and virtually came apart in my hand. Thanks to some forum searching I discovered I had to drop the tank out to change these lines. I also had to replace the breather/vent hose going to the filler. I cleaned and painted the tank while it was out too.

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    The engine still stutters a bit when you rev it but other than that it sounds pretty smooth and quiet. It had a miss at first but after cleaning the plugs it's much better. New ones would probably help more. That job was a small challenge in itself with the electrode extensions on the plugs. No doubt there is a special tool for that job but I made do with several spark plug sockets joined together.

    One thing that I quickly realized was no power steering! crap I wrongly assumed that all CX's must have had power steering, further research has told me early ones indeed did not. Is it possible ie reasonably straight forward, to fit it from another car by any chance?

    Another thing is i'm assuming after it's been sitting for so long the spheres will be shot?
    What are my options there?
    With the engine running if I try to bounce the front or back of the car it feels very firm.

    I would like to change a few things but i'm not sure on the availability of some parts.
    I was thinking some alloys from an alfa etc, but I think the current wheels (sans fugly hubcaps) cleaned and painted could look quite good in their own way.

    I also like the rear boot spoiler fitted to some CX's, GTI's I think, are they hard to find? I'm guessing probably yes

    The interior is a vision in brown. This will not do lol
    I'm thinking a few cans of VHT vinyl dye. I've read some good reviews of people using it on beemers and other things, has anyone tried it on a CX? Pics would be fantastic if possible.

    What's the knob to the right of the steering wheel with the oil can on it? It's next to a little sight glass. And while i'm on that subject I'm assuming I should see a fluid level there but there's nothing. : Confused:

    I plan to change all the coolant hoses, belts etc, can someone provide a good place for those sort of parts. I don't mind buying from UK or Europe.

    I'm sure i'll have alot of questions as I discover more things in the coming weeks and months, and I look forward to becoming a more active member of the forum.

    Sorry for all the questions and the long winded post and thanks for looking.
    ohh and if there are any suggested jobs I should take care of please point them out
    ohh again, if anyone happens to have any history on this car i'd love to hear it. It came from Sydney in 2003.
    I've finished this post 7 times now and keep adding stuff, so i'll cut myself off for now haha.

    Ben

    PS, I couldn't go without putting up some pics!

    New CX Owner-img_20130301_180755-medium-.jpgNew CX Owner-img_20130228_164450-medium-.jpgNew CX Owner-img_20130228_164549-medium-.jpgNew CX Owner-img_20130303_154732-medium-.jpgNew CX Owner-img_20130303_154750-medium-.jpgNew CX Owner-img_20130303_154813-medium-.jpg

  2. #2
    1000+ Posts michaelr's Avatar
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    congratulations! That looks like a good solid car to start with. Should be an enjoyable project. If you are using it for long country drives no power steering is not so much of a problem but hard work for round town and parking.

    Four brand new suspension sphere are not too expensive (eg Dapco $70 each) and you have brand new “springs and shock absorbers” .

    I suggest you join the Citroen Car Club NSW for discounted supplies, access to special tools, lots of specialised knowledge and good company too! CCCNSW are quite active in the Illawarra .
    Michael
    Member, Citroen Car Club NSW

    DS23 Pallas 5 sp. "Francoise" , BX19TRi Auto "Jacques Dutronc" , Teardrop Trailer "The Toad", BMW R65 "Rosamund"
    In the past: Renault 750, Dauphine, R4, R8, R10, Peugeot 504 Familiale, ID 19 (x2), Safari (x2)

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger! Bruce Llewellyn's Avatar
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    Welcome aboard, you have done well!

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    Welcome and your CX is a great find.

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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Yes this is an excellent place to start. Do not be too concerned about the lack of PS. It is a rarer car without it and a lot less complex. Vinyl dye will work provided there are no greasy sections from a previous owner using a protectant. You are probably aware that good door trims are very rare and you are lucky to have ones in such good order. I would match the vinyl spray to the pillar trims and just do the door trims. Once everything is uniform in colour it will look much better. The door pulls come off easily and can be re coloured as well. It is a little trickier to do the vinyl on the front door pockets. The door trim has to come off (Be Careful ---Very Careful) and the ties to the lower pocket have to be un-stapled, then the carpet section needs to be masked before spraying. A good Dash specialist can match the spray colour for you.
    Cheers Gerry

  6. #6
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    That looks really nice. It's a big task, but I'd consider fitting power steering to it. They suck to drive without it ( IMO ). I'll see if I can find a set of hubcaps for it on the weekend. It probably should have the early ones with a painted raised area in the middle.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/citro%EBn-forum/90325-best-project-car-you-have-ever-seen.html
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    There are 2 spoiler types - GTi and Turbo, neither were very common in Aus.
    The knob and sight glass are for oil level (happy to be corrected on this, it's a few years since I've had an old CX), but on the various CX's I've owned none have ever worked.

    I'd try the car for a while before deciding to change the steering - it really will depend upon what you're used to driving and the type of motoring you do. In my short experience with a CX Super without P/S like yours, it was a pain to park in town. Make sure you also drive a power-steered CX before going to the effort - they are nothing like an ordinary power-steered car.

    And for anyone thinking of buying an early CX who doesn't want to fall into the no power steering trap, your second photo tells us your car is lacking it in two ways - larger diameter steering wheel (not that obvious to the uninitiated), and the steering wheel arm is not pointing straight down. A parked CX with wheels not pointing straight ahead is also a giveaway.
    Bruce H

    Now 99 Xantia SX x2; 96 Xantia SX; 76 GS Club Estate x2; 76 GS Club; 74 GS Club; 88 VW T3 Reimo
    Before: AX Gti; BX 19TRi Estate; CX 2200 Super & Pallas; CX2400 Pallas; CX 2400ie Prestige auto; DS3 DStyle; GS Pallas; GSA Club; Xantia Image Estate; Xantia Exclusive; Xsara VTR R4; 1.4 Special Estate; Virage; R16TS

    Contact for the Australian Citroen GS GSA and Birotor Register http://australiancitroengsgsaandbiro...com/index.html

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    My first CX was 2200...and I loved it. My second, third and fourth 2400s loved them too. There is a lot to love about the early ones...keep her well.

  9. #9
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    Thanks for every ones positive comments

    The car looks better in the photos that it actually is which is usually the case, but overall it's pretty straight and tidy, especially the interior. I was surprised at the condition of the door trims when I first looked at the car. I've seen so many pictures of very nice cars with cracked door trims. I also got a boot lid, 4 doors, and 2 sets of door trims with the car. Some of those trims are bad but some I think were ok. I was going to try the vinyl dye on a part of a damaged one to see how it looks.

    The paint has alot of patina as I like to call it Some sections are cracked and crazed, some parts have peeled or worn off (I think from being under a car cover for so long) most however would look fine after a decent polish. The drivers side front guard is the worst. It has alot of paint missing along the top edge, and it's quite rippled low down, possibly from a poor repair at some stage. I think if i was to only repaint the bad panels they would stand out too much. I'm not too worried about it now anyway. It's presentable enough for the time being so i'll concentrate on all the mechanicals first.

    I've spent the afternoon cleaning and de-greasing. It looked like the previous owner had gone around the whole car and on every little crack or chip in the paint sprayed what I believe to be fish oil. I'm sure alot of you know that once fish oil is baked on it a right bastard to remove haha

    I've got most of it off now though, and the engine bay is looking a million bucks better. I also took it for a quick spin up and down the street a few times. It's still not running 100% and the suspension felt much like the rubber cones on my old Mini lol. Once funds allow i'll order some new spheres. Is there only the 4 suspension ones that need doing?

    The steering I found to be not too bad at all as long as your moving even slightly. The last larger non power steer car I had was a F100 and the CX is much easier than that so i'll give it a chance.

    Another thing I've discovered steering related is the cover on the steering wheel. I hate steering wheel covers so when I went to remove it I found that over the last decade it's fused itself to the wheel. Who knows how it's going to look once I peel it off but I've seen those lace on leather covers on ebay that should look alot better and cover up any damage.

    Shane, if you get a chance to look for some hub caps that would be great.
    Are they the small ones that just cover up the bolts, or the full size ones?

    Ohh I wanted to ask about the brakes. I assume it's just the way they are meant to be but the pedal has very little travel and compared to other cars the brakes are almost an on/off switch. It only takes a little getting used to, but just thought i'd ask if that's normal.

    Thanks again
    Ben

  10. #10
    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    Easiest solution would be to buy a complete set of fresh new spheres from Europe (you'll need an accumulator sphere done as well) with some fresh LHM fluid to go in the tank you've flushed and filter cleaned out.

    Yes, your brake pedal is normal. Dropping anchor on a CX will stop the car quick smart.

    The 2200 has what I like to call a "sweet motor" like a late DS 21 -smooth, subtle and with power when you need it.

    You might want to go for a steering wheel cover option as finding a correct and unburnt one for your car could prove to impossible.

    Congratulations on your purchase.

    PS: What's wrong with Citroen brown?
    1972 SM
    1989 BX 16 Valve

  11. #11
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    I think it reminds me too much of a whole bunch of very forgettable 80's datsuns and toyotas lol
    I'm not yet game to remove the crusty seat covers in the car because that's just too much brown to have all in one place!

    I really like the cloth seats from what i'm assuming are the Pallas. Blue ones in particular I saw somewhere last week but am unable to find the pic again. I think my drivers seat base might be collapsed a bit too so if I was to find a nice set of cloth seats that would be great.

    Quote Originally Posted by donat View Post
    PS: What's wrong with Citroen brown?

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    So how many spheres in total, and are they all identical?

    And what's a good place to buy LHM?

    I'll have a look around for a guide on replacing the spheres and flushing the fluid but if someone knows of one and can point me in the right direction I would greatly appreciate it.

    Thanks again

    Ben

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    That looks really nice. It's a big task, but I'd consider fitting power steering to it. They suck to drive without it ( IMO ). I'll see if I can find a set of hubcaps for it on the weekend. It probably should have the early ones with a painted raised area in the middle.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    I wouldn't try, having looked at a manual steered 2200 pallas and having worked on the power steered ones. (Shane's braver than me) There's just too many pipes and other parts changes. I'm planning to run my 2200 as original, since I've got power steered ones too. The 2200 does go, but it's very original. You can see the black primer through the paint that's powdered off the roof.

    I found the 2200 easy to drive with 185- 80 14 tyres at the correct pressure. 195-75s make it very heavy.

  14. #14
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    Is the Super meant to have the full sized hubcaps or those half-sized screw on things? The full-sized ones do look better.

    Are you missing one of the spats or was it just removed?

    The plug extensions can normally be unscrewed from the plug so you can use a regular socket. Or a box spanner.

    You will get one sphere per corner, different pressures and dampers front to back, plus an accumulator (no damper) on the regulator unit down low near the front of the engine and probably another accumulator in the extreme left front corner of the engine bay. Being a Super, it won't have the third accumulator on the left wheelarch.

    Fitting power steering may involve more work and fiddly little bits of piping than you expect. I can donate a spare governor to the cause if you require it, but a donor car would be easier. Not having power steering is the reason many Supers went to the crusher - barely saleable when you could get a Pallas for very little anyway.

    You have the single piston pump too I'd guess. Yes?

  15. #15
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    A CX Cmatic to Aussie specs has two rear, two front supension spheres both with different damper rated and pressures, plus three accumulator spheres. The accumulator spheres all have identical pressures and no dampers fitted, they are slightly smaller and two will be for the diagonally split brake circuits and the other is the main accumulator. Pressures are stamped into the upper surface of the spheres.
    Cheers Gerry

  16. #16
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I picked the manual steering right away.... It's the underbonnet shots I always check. they have a single piston camshaft driven pump, you can't see this, but you can see the lack of a rotary pump and the main feed pipe from the reseviour heading to the back of the motor. Grab a freebie 2400 from somewhere and retrofit it's daravi. it would be a big job (very big) but very much worth it..... you need the donar car, Ken W has done this job in the past. You need the controller (steering column), pump, pipes, rack, cable -> the centripetal weight unit, the centripetal weight unit itself.... etc.. etc... The steering is a large part of the car. I've had manual steered cars here in the past. There not very nice to drive around town. The steering is heavy, slow and cumbersome. They feel like an understeering barge with the low gear manual steering too. But hey, you may like it, so give it a shot

    I didnt' spot it was a super ... I'll have to search for small hubcaps. You can tell as the interor vents, switches (and ashtray that you can't see) don't have the shiny metal trims on them. The bumper ends also don't have rubber (super).

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  17. #17
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    I agree the full sized hubcaps do look better in my opinion.

    I removed one of the spats to access the fuel tank vent hose which needed replacing and haven't put it back on yet.

    I am missing the lense on the center interior light though if anyone can help

    I'm not quite up to speed on the differences in pumps, but I think your right about it being a single cylinder one. So it sounds like that would need to be upgraded also if power steering was fitted?

    Thanks for the Sphere info. Any recommendations on a UK or Euro source?

    On a side note, gerrypro I just finished reading your CX restoration thread. Wow.
    I was a bit disappointed when I got the the end and you hadn't started it yet though. I need closure!! lol

    Thanks guys
    Ben


    Quote Originally Posted by David S View Post
    Is the Super meant to have the full sized hubcaps or those half-sized screw on things? The full-sized ones do look better.

    Are you missing one of the spats or was it just removed?

    The plug extensions can normally be unscrewed from the plug so you can use a regular socket. Or a box spanner.

    You will get one sphere per corner, different pressures and dampers front to back, plus an accumulator (no damper) on the regulator unit down low near the front of the engine and probably another accumulator in the extreme left front corner of the engine bay. Being a Super, it won't have the third accumulator on the left wheelarch.

    Fitting power steering may involve more work and fiddly little bits of piping than you expect. I can donate a spare governor to the cause if you require it, but a donor car would be easier. Not having power steering is the reason many Supers went to the crusher - barely saleable when you could get a Pallas for very little anyway.

    You have the single piston pump too I'd guess. Yes?

  18. #18
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Captain Slow View Post

    On a side note, gerrypro I just finished reading your CX restoration thread. Wow.
    I was a bit disappointed when I got the the end and you hadn't started it yet though. I need closure!! lol

    Thanks guys
    Ben

    Very Soon Ben! I am also working on an 11BL and that has taken a lot of my time!
    Cheers Gerry

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts George 1/8th's Avatar
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    hi Ben, I certainly would not go to the trouble of converting it over to power steering. You would have to change lots of parts, and add some too. It's very involved and complex. The pump you now have is no where near powerful enough to run the steering, so you have to fit a completely different HP pump, swap over the entire steering column, and rack and pinion, and add the centrifical control, change hoses and add HP pipes...a huge headache.. and what for?

    I love citroens, and I've had a few, and even though I got used to the diravi steering on my CX I never really liked it too much. I also didn't ever really like the power steering that the DS21 had. I might be sticking my neck out here, but I really prefer the power steering on the Xantia which is more conventional.
    In my own exprience a CX without Power Steering would be a good thing. Maybe I should get a 2200 like yours.
    Cheers...George 1/8th

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Yes George --a huge amount of work. But that being said the Diravi when it is set up properly ( and it can be quite a pig to align the centralising of the Steering control unit to the neutral position of the front wheel alignment) it is brilliant for the driver---I love it. The hardest thing to become accustomed to is the fact you cannot let the wheel slide back to straight ahead through your fingers. It will do so violently! One has to feed the wheel back to straight ahead smoothly. This is a good thing in that it forces the driver to control all aspects of steering firmly and correctly.
    If it was to be performed on this vehicle I would recommend a donor car and then the use of the later high volume pump to overcome the tendency to run out of pressure after several consecutive direction changes ----- ie in a Motorkhana situation. It is not nice to have the steering getting progressively harder and harder.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Well I knew it wouldn't be a simple job, but it's starting to sound more and more complicated!
    It sounds like more of a job for someone who has worked on these for a lot longer than I have. Perhaps once I know my way around a bit more, and if a donor car falls in my lap in the future I can give it more thought.

    A passing thought I had was to maybe try a more conventional setup with an electric steering pump from something like a Holden Astra etc, but not knowing much about the Diravi rack I don't know if it would work. I'm guessing no. So then one would have to adapt a conventional power steering rack from another car, which again not being familiar with CX's at this stage i'd have no idea what to start looking for.

    From memory de-greasing the engine bay yesterday I recall seeing the rack behind the cross member, so at least that makes it a much more common style. You would think that out there somewhere there would have to something very similar but probably would require a track change which is not too difficult. But then again the french seem to usually have a unique way of doing things, so who knows what's realistically possible. Anyway, just thinking out loud really.

    On the other side of things I really wanted to fully immerse myself into the CX experience, and the unique diravi power steering sounds like a big part of that so I feel i'm missing out lol

    Of course the more realistic approach but one that can be difficult once you get attached to things, is get familiar with the simpler 2200 setup, then sell or swap it and try out a newer model. Ever since reading I think it was Shane's (doublechevron) restoration/paint thread a while back i've been very partial to a gti turbo.

    Why is it nearly everytime I jump on here to bang out a quick reply and I end up with all this! haha

    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by George 1/8th View Post
    hi Ben, I certainly would not go to the trouble of converting it over to power steering. You would have to change lots of parts, and add some too. It's very involved and complex. The pump you now have is no where near powerful enough to run the steering, so you have to fit a completely different HP pump, swap over the entire steering column, and rack and pinion, and add the centrifical control, change hoses and add HP pipes...a huge headache.. and what for?

    I love citroens, and I've had a few, and even though I got used to the diravi steering on my CX I never really liked it too much. I also didn't ever really like the power steering that the DS21 had. I might be sticking my neck out here, but I really prefer the power steering on the Xantia which is more conventional.
    In my own exprience a CX without Power Steering would be a good thing. Maybe I should get a 2200 like yours.
    Cheers...George 1/8th

  22. #22
    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Check the frame that the rack bolts to for cracks and ensure that all bolts from the rack to the frame and the frame to the chassis are correctly tightened. If you find any loose check that there is no ovalisation of any of the bolt holes.
    If you decide that the Diravi is worth the time and trouble you will find that the necessary pipe work and brackets will bolt straight up as will the steering control unit and the power rack. You would also need to change the final drive housing so that the governor can be driven by cable. There are alos various small details to fit such as the heat shields for the pipes into the rack.
    You should be able to get a donor car really cheaply. The rusted cars are hard to even give away. I am sure that Shane could provide you with one!! ( goes under the nom de plume 'double chevron')
    Cheers Gerry

  23. #23
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by George 1/8th View Post
    hi Ben, I certainly would not go to the trouble of converting it over to power steering. You would have to change lots of parts, and add some too. It's very involved and complex. The pump you now have is no where near powerful enough to run the steering, so you have to fit a completely different HP pump, swap over the entire steering column, and rack and pinion, and add the centrifical control, change hoses and add HP pipes...a huge headache.. and what for?

    I love citroens, and I've had a few, and even though I got used to the diravi steering on my CX I never really liked it too much. I also didn't ever really like the power steering that the DS21 had. I might be sticking my neck out here, but I really prefer the power steering on the Xantia which is more conventional.
    In my own exprience a CX without Power Steering would be a good thing. Maybe I should get a 2200 like yours.
    Cheers...George 1/8th
    No ..... I'm absolutely postive anyone that's ever driven and owned one with power steering won't like one without . It's HEAVY with a capital "H". The steering wheel is huge and it's 4turns lock to lock ( not 2.5). It makes the car feel like a huge heavy understeering boat to anyone that's owned a power steered one. Having said that, they drive really nicely on the freeway and have the CX ride etc... Performance I thought was better than the 2400.... much less torque down low but they rev out really nicely.

    Given it's unlikely one would be a daily driver these days (more of a hobby car to tinker with)...... I reckon he'll like it

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    'Cit' homepage:
    Citroen Workshop
    Proper cars--
    '85 Series II CX2500 GTi Turbo I
    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
    '07 Poogoe 407 HDi 6spd manual

  24. #24
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    Your new CX was a topic of discussion at the CCC South Coast Branch BBQ at Bundanoon today. Was it a Wollongong area car? No one seemed to know of it - including those that have been around for a loooooong time.

    One guru suggested that with all ball joints etc in top condition and running the front tyres a little higher pressure than normal then the steering should be quite serviceable - OK, not finger tip light, but quite OK.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    Wollongong, NSW
    Posts
    139

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    Hmmm that's interesting to hear.

    The story goes that ten or so years ago the nice old chap I bought it from purchased it from somewhere in Sydney and drove it to Sanctuary point, a bit south of Nowra. He had a new exhaust fitted, new tyres, then registered it. He said he didn't really drive it after that. His son took it for a drive further south one time but that was about it. I guess after a year the rego then ran out and at some point he threw a few car covers on it and left it, intending to do a full restoration "one day"

    Just recently he had quite a bit of family tragedy and lost motivation with cars so he sold up.

    So basically the car would have been off any ones radar since 2003, before that I have no idea but was hoping someone might.

    I removed all the seat covers today for a look see. The bad news is they are in pretty bad condition, and the rear base is fabric where as the rest are vinyl.
    So i'm on the look out for a full set of replacements if anyone has any leads

    RE: steering, I had another quick drive today and I really don't find it too bad as long as you have at least some forward movement. Given the choice I would definitely prefer powered, but I don't think it will be too difficult to put up with. Having said that it's probably best I don't get to drive a power steer car just in case lol

    On a completely unrelated note, can anyone tell me why the last few days most of the forum webpage text has been in french?
    Like "reply" and "preview" etc?

    Cheers
    Ben

    Quote Originally Posted by UFO View Post
    Your new CX was a topic of discussion at the CCC South Coast Branch BBQ at Bundanoon today. Was it a Wollongong area car? No one seemed to know of it - including those that have been around for a loooooong time.

    One guru suggested that with all ball joints etc in top condition and running the front tyres a little higher pressure than normal then the steering should be quite serviceable - OK, not finger tip light, but quite OK.

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