C5 underbody protection & more
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  1. #1
    Tadpole
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    Icon7 C5 underbody protection & more

    Hi All

    My first post on any forum, sorry it's volume I of War and Peace!

    I have just purchased a 2005 C5 facelift 2.2 SX HDI Wagon Auto 185 km in a very tasty champagne & leather upholstery, of a mate of a mate. She has 2 previous owners; 1 for 2 years & 135 km, then the 2nd owner procured his french mistress. The C5 came with a good service history & pretty tidy condition, I managed to pick her up 3 wks ago for the trade in value, great deal I hope?
    My first Citroen, at last!

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    So far I have shod her with new Bridgestone Turanza tyres 16's, not cheap & nothing with a W or greater speed rating is. Why a 2.2 Diesel needs to have tyres W or 270km rated rubber is beyond me, but I didn't want to give my insurance co. an option to not pay up should the unmentionable happen to my now shiny & sexyC5!

    Another problem I have uncovered is there is only one remnant of under body protection (rear left side).
    From my research it would appear that the C5 requires at the minimum the engine undercover shield as it helps secure the front bumper & front wheel arches? True or False? I also think the underside protection is provided by Citroen for very good reasons ie increased fuel efficiency by reducing wind turbulence & Citroen would save money by not fitting & supplying. If I am correct where can the u/body protection be purchased for a reasonable sum, my local dealers want around $1600 for the 4 main pieces, Sacra bleu!

    Next problem there is a rattling noise that is coming from the front lower suspension, which sounds like it could be worn sway bar bushes & it produces a loud bang at the rear when driven over some of our atrocious Central Qld roads & speed humps, babying her eliminates this, however I always drive with care & don't flog my vehicles so was surprised to encounter this. I have read of the rear end bump bang with Mk 1 models but can't imagine this to be normal.

    Any help and advise would be Very Very Muck Appreciated as she is a lovely car & I would love to solve these issues economically & enjoy many blissful km's in my dream car.

    Kind Regards to All & sorry to rabbit on...Geoff

  2. #2
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    Hi Geoff,
    I also have a 2005 build C5 2.2 Wagon.
    Forget about the dealers for parts. They are prohibitively expensive compared to importing from the UK. They also seem to know little about them New Citroen C5 Owner
    First of all you have to set yourself up on the website to access the part number fiches.
    The website is www.service.citroen.com
    It's a little confusing but you can get into the English section, state that you are a repairer and register so you can get access by password and code. You then plug in your vin number and it will give you exploded diagrams with part numbers of every part.
    The parts you need are
    1. Engine Bay Sound Proofing #7013 CJ
    2. Air Deflector Engine Left #7013 T3
    Right #7013 T2
    3. Air Deflector Engine Left #7013 V7
    These are the official Citroen designations.

    The first one is quite large although not very heavy. I recently got some parts from neatcarparts.co.uk in England and they sent door to door courier. It was 45 pounds for a long narrow package and only took 8 days. They can order any Citroen part so you could email them for a quote and see if they can send the large part. I have seen reference to it on the UK forum and there is a place in Poland (I think) who sell repros.
    Otherwise search this forum and ring the companies mentioned who may have C5 wrecks to check if they have the parts.
    They are held on a little precariously and there are complaints on the UK forum of them falling off and being lost after not being affixed properly by mechanics after a service. Mine was missing a couple of fixators so I got some to replace them (both the bit on the car and the bit that screws in) but had to buy a whole pack of each so let me know if you need any.

    Justin

  3. #3
    Fellow Frogger
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    Have a look at the front wishbone bushes and you will probably find the are torn. They are not expensive to change front and rear and it can transform the steering, but you need a press. If they are OK, then the knock might be one of the drop links or even a ball joint. You will need a special tool (same as for Pugs. Can buy from T&E, eBay or borrow...) for the ball joints.

  4. #4
    Tadpole
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    Hi Guys thanks for all your help & advice.
    Justin, how's Mackay treating you? Pretty place but very humid even in April or have you moved on? Appreciate the links, cheers. If your coming to Rocky feel free to drop me a line & we can have a coffee & we can admire each others cars. Great to hear our local Citroen dealer looked after you! Gives me confidence to visit them.
    David I have read lots of your contributions/posts to this thread & was thrilled you responded to my post, you have an incredible depth & breath of knowledge on all things Citroen, cheers mate.
    I have been trying to find a service manual so I can work out what is manageable at home & what needs to go to the garage. It would be nice to gain some understanding of how the C5 works. I have a Bentley manual for the Volvo 240 & its is great for plebs like myself to gain insight into the vehicle.
    The Haynes manual, on eBay doesn't cover the C5 2.2 diesel. There are some discs on eBay that promise to cover every model from c1 to c infinity & beyond but lack detail in their advertising i.e. specific motors & transmissions etc. Can anyone recommend a C5 bible to suit my 05 2.2 diesel auto wagon? Regards Geoff

  5. #5
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    Default C5 bits ?

    Quote Originally Posted by manurewaboy View Post
    Hi Guys thanks for all your help & advice.
    Justin, how's Mackay treating you? Pretty place but very humid even in April or have you moved on? Appreciate the links, cheers. If your coming to Rocky feel free to drop me a line & we can have a coffee & we can admire each others cars. Great to hear our local Citroen dealer looked after you! Gives me confidence to visit them.
    David I have read lots of your contributions/posts to this thread & was thrilled you responded to my post, you have an incredible depth & breath of knowledge on all things Citroen, cheers mate.
    I have been trying to find a service manual so I can work out what is manageable at home & what needs to go to the garage. It would be nice to gain some understanding of how the C5 works. I have a Bentley manual for the Volvo 240 & its is great for plebs like myself to gain insight into the vehicle.
    The Haynes manual, on eBay doesn't cover the C5 2.2 diesel. There are some discs on eBay that promise to cover every model from c1 to c infinity & beyond but lack detail in their advertising i.e. specific motors & transmissions etc. Can anyone recommend a C5 bible to suit my 05 2.2 diesel auto wagon? Regards Geoff
    Hi Geoff,
    Some mutterings from a C5 owner.

    I was after a replacement undertray for mine when I bought it. I ended up putting a piece of 3mm ply under there with screws. Actually it needs redoing now as it suffers from the low parking stops etc that all new cars catch on these days. Or contact the wreckers to get the bits and patch as necessary. I have found Dave at French Connection helpfull for bits. Sponsor on here too, look at the bottom.

    The discs on ebay may be the best bet. They are probably copies of the dealer software with all the required information. It's a clunky unfriendly format but has everything, and suits all models. All the parts diagrams too and numbers to order. You can put in your vin to get specific parts information. I have one(5 years ago) but the computer died and the "dongle" only works once and that vendor has 'gone'. Note these are probably not 100% legal as far as PSA are concerned but so what.

    Note that you can also register with Citroen Service and get the parts etc information free on line. You can also pay to get the other stuff, by the hour I believe. It will be the latest update one assumes direct from Citroen, but it is the same as on the disc, clunky and unfriendly too.
    Jaahn
    PS PM me if you want.

  6. #6
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    Hi Geoff,
    I had the same issue re manuals. There is no bible that includes the 2.2. I bought the Haynes from the UK on ebay. $38 posted for a new one compared with $65 plus postage ordered online from Oz. It's worth getting as it has service intervals etc plus brakes, bodywork, electrical.
    You should be able to do oil & filter change, fuel filter, brake pads etc.
    There are mechanical manuals available on the Citroen site by sybscription but only really necessary for more major mechanical work. You can just pay about 6 Euros for 1 hour access then print the relevant pages.
    I got no service history with mine although it had obviously been well maintained (another story and the subject of an ongoing legal case). I suspect that the dealer is avoiding giving the documents to me because they show that the fault was present in the service records. I therefore decided to do a full service. When I went to order a fuel filter at the local auto store they quoted me $56 for a Wesfil one when I knew that they were less than 10 pounds in the UK. I ended up ordering 2 fuel filters, an air filter and a cabin filter from the UK for $75 including postage. Good value but unfortunately I relied on their selecting the parts. The fuel filters were incorrect for my car. I have since discovered they can have Bosch or Siemens filter units. You can tell by looking at them or the Citroen site will have the correct number so you can cross reference. Mine is Siemens but the filters were for a Bosch. The air filter was also incorrect but just slackness on their part. Oil filters are no problem here Ryco 543 from Repco etc.
    To access the fuel filter hold the front engine cover on its front corners, lift and pull backwards. The Siemens one has a big screw top with 3 ports on top. The Bosch has a hexaginal shape on top. Yours is likely to be Siemens so fuel filter OEM is 1906 A5 or A6 or Mahle KX85D (the OEM are rebranded Mahle anyway). The benefit with OEM or Mahle is you get little plugs in the kit to stop contamination of the outlet ports. There is a cheap OEM on ebay at the moment http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/CITROEN-F...item20cf69b620
    The other thing you need to get is oil and suspension fluid. Specified oil is Total Quartz Ineo ECS and suspension fluid is LDS. You can get them from here
    NORTH QUEENSLAND INDEPENDANT FUEL SERVICES
    10 David Muir Street
    Slade Point, Mackay 4740
    Queensland, Australia
    Tel: 61-7-4955 4149
    Fax: 61-7-4955 7881
    Contact: stephen@nqifs.com.au
    They have both in stock and prices are great. 5 litre oil and 1 litre LDS.

    Thanks for the offer of coffee and chat. We've left Mackay now and are in Hervey Bay until July then back home to Montville. If you're heading south at any stage the same offer exists. PM me your email address and I'll send you some Citroen factory PDF manuals for Turbo and mechanicals that I've managed to find. Also keep asking questions as my C5 has been a major research project. Mine is great now and we love it.

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger!
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    I have a complete set (7 volumes) of the C5 workshop manual
    Don't know the practicality of having it duplicated
    But it probably can be done

  8. #8
    Tadpole
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    Hi All thanks again for all the informative & supportive reply's
    Sherman would love to find out how I can lay my hands on such a comprehensive resource, pray tell me more. Maybe one day I may rise high enough to evolve into a Fellow Frogger (Merlot induced humour no offence intended) as I have only been created as a tadpole, what would Darwin make of this!
    Justin thx again for the resource & product info, Gerald Cullen of A Cullen & Sons is servicing/selling Citroen's in Nambour. Gerald is a great bloke who rose well above the call of duty to help me in the past with helping in servicing pugs in C.Q. He also helped support me in a claim with an insurance co. who failed to recognise the value of a 405 after it had been written off, by personally writing them a letter. So when in the Sunshine Coast I would visit Gerald, my experience he will do all he can to help his fellow frog car enthusiast. Will this get me a free cup of caffeine Gerald?
    Jaahn thank you my friend for you advice. I was discussing the merits of constructing under engine protection from light gauge aluminium or checker plate over a cold Toohey's New.
    Now would anyone like some rain, I had a gutful & would love to send it to the needy. (No good for the building industry!!)
    Cheers Geoff

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    Thanks for the info re the Nambour pug dealer. I'm familiar with them from driving past. I was intending to go there for any required work. I've been unimpressed with Sunshine Coast Citroen based on phone communication. Not helpful at all when I was trying to get my car sorted. We did book it there but when they wouldnt let me talk to the mechanic to give the full story and what had been done I cancelled the booking.

  10. #10
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    Default Manual 7 volumes ??

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman View Post
    I have a complete set (7 volumes) of the C5 workshop manual
    Don't know the practicality of having it duplicated
    But it probably can be done
    Hi Sherman,
    Where's a computer nerd when you need one ???

    The problem is the sheer volume of work to individually scan each page, and then file it electronically. However it would be a good thing in the long run for the community.

    Perhaps some more limited parts that are most relavant could be done. By who I am not sure. Could you give us an idea of the contents please.
    jaahn

  11. #11
    Fellow Frogger
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    Perhaps nice to have a set of printed manuals, but they will probably cover up to about 2002 and reflect what is already available online. If you buy one of those 'broken' Lexia type CD's you may well get portions of the online manuals in there somewhere. The wiring diagrams are a separate online system called Sedre and I doubt there will be printed manuals or wiring diagrams for most recent and current models even if one wanted them. The online wiring diagrams are unlikely to cover anything earlier than about 2000.

  12. #12
    Tadpole
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    Hi All
    David you're advice on the mystery knock is appreciated, but unactioned yet as my mates ramps are out in the open & the weather in Central Qld is still being less than gracious...
    Justin say G'day to Gerald from me, he'll remember selling me the mint 405 series 1 & the 405 srdt both blue
    I'm throwing out more questions to the illuminated, here we go.
    Went to check my auto oil & discovered it is a sealed unit, what sort of km's are people getting out of these before replacement or has someone figured out how to break into & service these suckers?
    Same deal with the suspension spheres what kind of kays are people getting before the need attention/replacing?
    When I picked up the C5 after having the tyres replaced (Fri Arvo) I noticed a brake pad burning smell after 1-2km so I took it back to the Tyre shop & we noticed smoke coming from the front left hand disc brake, wow? The front left brake was jammed on as I suspected. A tell tale sign was the hand brake needed to be pulled up a long way before engaging. They kept the car & discovered the brake had unlocked itself? They then wanted to keep the car & check out any damage that may have occurred as a result of the brake damage. they tell me they machined both front discs, as a precaution, but didn't replace the pads. They never consulted me just went ahead & did what they did. My concerns are will my brake jam on again & I have read discs & pads should be replaced on the C5 at the same time so is machining the discs as opposed to replacing them & the pads a safe practice?
    By the way The Bridgestone Turanza's are fabulous in the wet, they encourage one to pilot the vehicle at a greater pace in safety, smooth driving = pace, just observe the great formula one drivers & motorcycle riders, smooth baby & total control.
    My front bumper has decided it like to hang down 3mm exposing the tongue & slot it fits into below the left head light, Have I lost a screw or is this a symptom of not having the under engine protection thingy in place.
    Regards Geoff

  13. #13
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    The gearbox is not a sealed unit, but doesn't have a dipstick. There's a procedure for changing the fluid and I would have thought it would have been changed by now. If not, change it. the 4HP20 4 speed uses the same fluid as the AL4, which is an ESSO fluid, but there are alternatives.

    Spheres have lasted more than a decade, depending on how the car is used. They can go flat or rupture, but you'll know as one corner or more will become relatively hard when you push the car down in the same way as you might test for bad shock absorbers.

    Did the caliper's piston bind up or did the slides bind up? One pad or both? They are a single piston caliper with a slide that would benefit from a little lubricant. There is a trap with the calipers as the pistons have an adjuster to take up wear and need to be screwed back in to fit new pads ... but the threads are in opposite directions. If they overlooked this, they could have created the problem. You don't necessarily need to change pads and rotors every time, but it depends on whether there's enough left in the disc to skim it and remain above minimum thickness.

    A quick check next time the front wheels are off is to see whether the front strut return hoses are hard and about to snap. If you think they are past their prime, change them before you have a large LDS leak there. The special clip is expensive, so you could used a hose clamp if you reuse the metal pad on the clip that spreads the load on the hose end fitting.

  14. #14
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    Default C5

    Quote Originally Posted by manurewaboy View Post
    Hi All
    David you're advice on the mystery knock is appreciated, but unactioned yet as my mates ramps are out in the open & the weather in Central Qld is still being less than gracious...
    Justin say G'day to Gerald from me, he'll remember selling me the mint 405 series 1 & the 405 srdt both blue
    I'm throwing out more questions to the illuminated, here we go.
    Went to check my auto oil & discovered it is a sealed unit, what sort of km's are people getting out of these before replacement or has someone figured out how to break into & service these suckers?
    Same deal with the suspension spheres what kind of kays are people getting before the need attention/replacing?
    When I picked up the C5 after having the tyres replaced (Fri Arvo) I noticed a brake pad burning smell after 1-2km so I took it back to the Tyre shop & we noticed smoke coming from the front left hand disc brake, wow? The front left brake was jammed on as I suspected. A tell tale sign was the hand brake needed to be pulled up a long way before engaging. They kept the car & discovered the brake had unlocked itself? They then wanted to keep the car & check out any damage that may have occurred as a result of the brake damage. they tell me they machined both front discs, as a precaution, but didn't replace the pads. They never consulted me just went ahead & did what they did. My concerns are will my brake jam on again & I have read discs & pads should be replaced on the C5 at the same time so is machining the discs as opposed to replacing them & the pads a safe practice?
    By the way The Bridgestone Turanza's are fabulous in the wet, they encourage one to pilot the vehicle at a greater pace in safety, smooth driving = pace, just observe the great formula one drivers & motorcycle riders, smooth baby & total control.
    My front bumper has decided it like to hang down 3mm exposing the tongue & slot it fits into below the left head light, Have I lost a screw or is this a symptom of not having the under engine protection thingy in place.
    Regards Geoff
    Hi Geoff
    A few suggestions / ideas from my experience.
    The brakes are a normal design so there would be no problem just doing a skim if the pads are OK and the thickness is OK . As David said the pad adjusters screw opposite ways on each side which is not usual, so they may have been tricked there. Also there is the possibility they caught the handbrake cable and it was jammed somehow, when they worked on the car. Hard to see why the caliper would jam but anything is possible on a car. No reason for the brake to jam again if the system is inspected for correct operation. Not a usual problem.

    From my experience the knock could be the sway bar drop links. The boots go and the plastic joint gets dry and slack and knocks. The aftermarket UK ones fail rapidly as the rubber boots are crap. Easy to change though and cheapish. Get Pug ones for half price.

    Search on here for AL4 auto information. Change the oil now to ensure it has been done. Use a multi synthetic oil from a good brand which lists it as a replacement, is my recommendation. The Mobile oil is now superceeded by their multi synthetic oil. Ask if you need more help.

    My spheres are original, 2001 model, and are OK although not as soft as I remember, but still as good as other cars.

    The front "bumper" is really just a plastic skin which covers the real bumper parts, metal, foam etc. The skin just hangs there with some tongues in slots and some screws along the top of the grill and under the guards and a few push pins called something odd also!!! You could try to take it off on one side to see how it goes. Its tough and flexible. The inner guards probably contribute somewhat, so if missing that may not help, and also the under guard.

    As I said before, can register with Citroen service, and look at the parts diagrams for free. There you can see the actual plastic guards etc and the screws, pins etc that hold it on, and the locations.

    The crash from the suspension over humps etc may be actually topping out the suspension. I find mine does this on speed humps. Seems like not enough down travel for big drops.

    jaahn

  15. #15
    Tadpole
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    Cheers Guys! Thx for the advice & resources!

  16. #16
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    The under-engine tray is a must have, as it holds the whole bumper bar together. If you don't use it, then the sides billow out at speed and every other bit underneath starts to come adrift. I had one replaced as part of a prang and I don't think they secured the pins very tight and it soon wore out from bottoming on everything or bowing down at speed. Now I have made one up out of a bit of sheet steel, but I like the idea of the plywood better, as the steel makes quite a noise when it scrapes over a bump.

    Whatever you use, pay particular care to fix everything firmly to every other piece. This is quite hard to do as the original plastic things don't work well the 2nd or 3rd times around.

    If you make up your own sheet, then I still haven't worked out how you are supposed to get at the oil drain plug... anyone got a photo?

    Cheers, Erik

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