Compliancing a 2CV.
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  1. #1
    Fellow Frogger! Ren5turbo2's Avatar
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    Default Compliancing a 2CV.

    Hi guys im looking to buy my first 2CV, ive seen one i like but its neither registered or complianced, its a 1987 model. Cheers.

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    JBN
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    I don't know what the deal is in the ACT, In NSW, the car needs to be Blue Slipped. To get that done, it needs an inspection for ADR compliance by an appropriately licenced engineer. There is one in the ACT. He visits NSW regularly. He will require the following:
    1. Vehicle to be mechanically sound
    2. Side intrusion bars
    3. Reversing light
    4. Lap/sash seatbelts all around
    5. Dual braking circuit (yours will comply)
    6. On prior 2CVs, I needed to have the engine stamped with the serial number (the Citroen plate being unacceptable), Get an appropriate set of punches and punch the number into the crankcase where the right hand cylinder joins.
    7. Headrests. On the first two 2CVs I imported, I bought Citroen headrests that were designed for the German market. BX headrests are great because they pull out of the seat, have one post, can be hacksaw down and welded onto the 2CV seat top.
    8. The collapsible steering column should not be required as its more vertical that most. Since the steering rack is between your feet, it is highly unlikely that this would be a problem.


    The bad news is that this ACT engineer agrees that the rear door hinge is not strong enough to cope with side intrusion bars, so his solution was to remove the rear seat and all rear seat belt fittings and have the car classified as a "coupe". So in a bullshit baffles brains scenario, of the 4 million 2CVs that were built over four decades, this dude, who has never designed a car, wants to be the first in the world to design a 2CV coupe! His cost is about $500 for the magic bit of paper, plus about $800 to be spent on a pair of front door side intrusion bars. This is to save YOU and your front seat passenger in the event of a T-bone. Should augment the 35mm wide doors admirably.

    Good luck. If your car has UK numberplates, don't take them off in a hurry. In NSW from this year, rego labels are not used anymore and that may be the case in the ACT as well. You could probably get away with UK plates for a long time. Stick on a UK label on the back and act like a pommy tourist. I expect you can speak English. Goodness knows where the parking fines and speed camera fines go, but I guess they won't end up at your address.

    I don't think there are any moral issues here. After all, the PM who spends most of her time in the ACT got her job by political assassination, so there can't be too many "holier than thou" types down there.

    John
    Last edited by JBN; 14th January 2013 at 10:35 PM.

  3. #3
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Doesn't it need import approval first. Without the documents saying it can be legally registered, I would have thought compliancing it would be pointless
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    I don't know what the deal is in the ACT, In NSW, the car needs to be Blue Slipped. To get that done, it needs an inspection for ADR compliance by an appropriately licenced engineer. There is one in the ACT. He visits NSW regularly. He will require the following:
    1. Vehicle to be mechanically sound
    2. Side intrusion bars
    3. Reversing light
    4. Lap/sash seatbelts all around
    5. Dual braking circuit (yours will comply)
    6. On prior 2CVs, I needed to have the engine stamped with the serial number (the Citroen plate being unacceptable), Get an appropriate set of punches and punch the number into the crankcase where the right hand cylinder joins.
    7. Headrests. On the first two 2CVs I imported, I bought Citroen headrests that were designed for the German market. BX headrests are great because they pull out of the seat, have one post, can be hacksaw down and welded onto the 2CV seat top.
    8. The collapsible steering column should not be required as its more vertical that most. Since the steering rack is between your feet, it is highly unlikely that this would be a problem.


    The bad news is that this ACT engineer agrees that the rear door hinge is not strong enough to cope with side intrusion bars, so his solution was to remove the rear seat and all rear seat belt fittings and have the car classified as a "coupe". So in a bullshit baffles brains scenario, of the 4 million 2CVs that were built over four decades, this dude, who has never designed a car, wants to be the first in the world to design a 2CV coupe! His cost is about $500 for the magic bit of paper, plus about $800 to be spent on a pair of front door side intrusion bars. This is to save YOU and your front seat passenger in the event of a T-bone. Should augment the 35mm wide doors admirably.

    Good luck. If your car has UK numberplates, don't take them off in a hurry. In NSW from this year, rego labels are not used anymore and that may be the case in the ACT as well. You could probably get away with UK plates for a long time. Stick on a UK label on the back and act like a pommy tourist. I expect you can speak English. Goodness knows where the parking fines and speed camera fines go, but I guess they won't end up at your address.

    I don't think there are any moral issues here. After all, the PM who spends most of her time in the ACT got her job by political assassination, so there can't be too many "holier than thou" types down there.

    John
    This certification process is a sick bureaucratic joke, supporting a raft of so-called "engineers" who wouldn't get fed in a rational society.
    I imported my SM back in 2004 and went through hell trying to satisfy a loony "engineer" in order to register the car in Victoria. As JBN says these guys have never designed a car, but have the power (backed up by the might of the civil servants nannies, Federal and State) to bring into question the manufacturer's design and demand alterations. Manufacturers who have built squillions of cars and could be expected to know a thing or two about the process. Apart from the usual shit, I went through the "no safety humps on the rims" debate, the "universal joints in the steering column not aligned correctly" lunacy, the "provide rear wheel guards to within 230mm above ground level" madness and others. The final insult was a recommendation to go onto Club rego.
    I am lucky enough to have spent my motoring youth in a much freer era - no radar guns, amphometers, booze buses, or intrusive law enforcers. You didn't have to get some moron to "certify" the fitment of twin SU's on yer side-valve Morris Minor. I registered in Tasmania without inspection a Berkeley 328 fitted with a 4 cylinder engine 3 times the size of the original. Sure, we all knew mates who didn't make it, but we weren't over-burdened with professional nannies like today.
    End of rant.
    roger

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    Fellow Frogger! Ren5turbo2's Avatar
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    Thanks guys ill get some more info from the seller.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    The main question I'd be asking, is "if" it can be complianced.... .why hasn't it been ........ Sure is an expensive way to end up with a 2cv parts car otherwise. The amount of paperwork I have here for the CX's compliance is amazing (that one was approval for use in Australia after being owned and used for 3months overseas).... And that was 17years ago. I fear what they would require these days

    In Victoria for a limited use car these days, it's probably not the end of the world if you can just put it on a 90day club permit. Who will be using a classic car for more than 90days a year any longer The logbook system in Victoria these days is brilliant. I've even had a TOG cop that pulled me over comment on how good he thought the club rego scheme was.... "can I see your logbook" ... "Thanks mate, off you go".

    seeya,
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    Default Complaining 2cvs in the ACT

    Quote Originally Posted by Ren5turbo2 View Post
    Hi guys im looking to buy my first 2CV, ive seen one i like but its neither registered or complianced, its a 1987 model. Cheers.
    I've just got an engineering certificate for a 2cv I imported from UK from an ACT engineer. Would be happy to chat to y ou about the complyincing process, you can call me on 0407 664 843. It is also essential to have an import approval - Motor Registries will refuse to register an import without this.

    I brought I two 2cvs in 2010. The first I will sell shortly, the second needs some restoration but I will keep.

    Christ

  8. #8
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    If it's the green car in perth your looking at .... Is it RHD ?? You can't tell which side the steering wheel is on. It's also listed on ebay US for $3000.
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by acreid View Post
    I've just got an engineering certificate for a 2cv I imported from UK from an ACT engineer. Christ
    Hi Christ (with a monaker like that I am sure you would have no problems with compliance) did your engineer insist on side intrusion bars? If so, on both front and rear doors?

    From a safety point of view (nearness of door to driver, passengers; lack of strong anchor points), they are about as useless as bullbars on a pram. I have not seen any side intrusion bars on any other 2CV in Australia.

    One point to note in NSW. If the car is imported as a "private import" and is subsequently registered, don't let the registration lapse. I have had experience with a 1978 2CV, registered in NSW until 2000, then the rego lapsed and since then all the drama.

    John

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    Tadpole
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    Hello, another prospective 2CV owner here.
    If a car is already complianced and registered in Oz does that make it straightforward to buy and transfer the rego?
    In my situation I'm in Vic and may buy from a private seller in another state.
    Rod

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    If the vehicle has a compliance plate and stamped or engraved VIN and has been complianced by a RAWS it's considered to meet the appropriate ADRs. ( http://raws.infrastructure.gov.au/ )

    The vehicle can be purchased, sold and driven as if it were a locally delivered vehicle.

    http://www.vicroads.vic.gov.au/Home/...gistration.htm

  12. #12
    Tadpole
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    Thanks, Robmac. I don't fancy attempting to compliance one myself.

  13. #13
    JBN
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    Quote Originally Posted by rodh View Post
    Hello, another prospective 2CV owner here.
    If a car is already complianced and registered in Oz does that make it straightforward to buy and transfer the rego?
    In my situation I'm in Vic and may buy from a private seller in another state.
    Rod
    I would have thought that any car that is currently registered in a particular state, can be sold and transeferred to another with no problems. With a private import, the restriction was no transfer in the first year or two.

    There may be more problems with interstate transfers of ownership. I privately imported a 2CV into Australia in 1994. It was complianced and registered by the then RTA in NSW. This car was sold in exchange for a BX a few years later. It was then transferred to another owner and then another after that. My friend (from Victoria) was after a 2CV. He then bought this one, but it couldn't be transferred into his name BECAUSE HE HAD FORGOTTEN TO BRING HIS VICTORIAN LICENCE with him. So, the car was transferred into my name (the second time I had owned this car)! He then took it to Victoria, had it registered there before selling it within the year to someone in Canberra. All transfers were without hitch, except for the absence of a Victorian licence.

    Private Imports have a Yellow plate from the Federal Office of Road Safety (ACT) affixed on the bulkhead.


    John

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    1000+ Posts robmac's Avatar
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    As far as I'm aware in April 2008 the Federal RAWS scheme replaced all previous State based regulations.

    This was an attempt to prevent people privately importing vehicles and getting "an engineers report" to enable registration. The procedure at that time varied from state to state.

    The RAWS scheme is Australia wide, and yes it is necessary to attach a compliance sticker/plate plus generate a VIN number. These are listed with the Department of Infrastructure. Import is also authorized by them.

    I'm positive that RAWS complied cars with post April 2008 compliance plate are able to be registered in every/any state. In fact many imports today are complied in States other where they are first Sold to the market.

    I'm not sure if a pre April 2008 registered vehicle, which has not been complied under the current Scheme, can re registered in another State.

    I have a feeling that re registration requires a compliance check (to current regs) in the "new" State. I'm not positive, there may be an amenstry or build date cutoff. But you would safer to make sure the vehicle has compliance under the new scheme.

    Here is what Vic Roads say:

    Imported vehicles manufactured before 1989 (after June 1975 for motorcycles).


    A copy of the Vehicle Import Approval required by VicRoads.

    A customs clearance document is acceptable if imported before September 1989.

    RWC is required by VicRoads.
    No compliance plate required.
    Manufactured between 1969 (after June 1975 for motorcycles) & 1989 -
    a VASS approval certificate is required.

    The vehicle must be inspected to confirm that the VIN has been stamped on a substantial portion of the vehicle, such as the firewall, chassis rail or suspension rail or strut tower before the vehicle is registered.

    Manufactured before 1969 (before July 1975 for motorcycles)-
    A VASS approval certificate is required if the vehicle has had any modifications including left to right hand drive.

    Note: All imported light vehicles less than 30 years old and all imported heavy vehicles must be in right hand drive configuration before they can be registered.
    These vehicles will be inspected to confirm that the VIN or chassis number (as applicable) has been stamped on a substantial portion of the vehicle, such as the chassis rail, suspension tower or strut tower before the vehicle is registered.


    Vehicle manufactured after 1988 imported by a participant in the Registered Automotive Workshop Scheme (RAWS).
    VicRoads does not need to sight import approval documents for vehicles imported under RAWS.

    RWC is required by VicRoads.
    The RAWS Used Import plate/label must be fitted to the vehicle (Magenta colour).

    VIN must be stamped on the vehicle.
    Original RAWS Consumer Information Notice required
    Last edited by robmac; 17th January 2013 at 05:09 PM.

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    Fellow Frogger! Bruce Llewellyn's Avatar
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    Side door strength...

    Funny situation. There isn't anything about hinges having to take the load when you read the test procedure in the ADRs for side intrustion bars, just that the door mustn't deflect more that the given amount under the given load. There are ways to do this that don't rely on the hinges. So the engineer who suggested the coupe mod on their assessment of the rear door hinges may actually be in breach of the Institute of Engineers code of practise.

    There is a steady increase in this kind of shortcoming in the public service and it is a cultural problem. Nanny doesn't know how to fix a lawnmower and daddy isn't allowed to teach the kids how to do it, and now the kids are senior bureaucrats dictating policy.

    Just got a 'your business activity statement is late' notice for a company that was wound up two years ago...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruce Llewellyn View Post
    Side door strength...

    Funny situation. There isn't anything about hinges having to take the load when you read the test procedure in the ADRs for side intrustion bars, just that the door mustn't deflect more that the given amount under the given load. There are ways to do this that don't rely on the hinges. So the engineer who suggested the coupe mod on their assessment of the rear door hinges may actually be in breach of the Institute of Engineers code of practise.

    There is a steady increase in this kind of shortcoming in the public service and it is a cultural problem. Nanny doesn't know how to fix a lawnmower and daddy isn't allowed to teach the kids how to do it, and now the kids are senior bureaucrats dictating policy.

    Just got a 'your business activity statement is late' notice for a company that was wound up two years ago...
    I would have thought the VASS inspector would be responsible for ensuring the effectiveness of side intrusion bars?

    The regs are simply meant to ensure that an imported vehicle is equivalent safety standards as local vehicles of the same manufacture date, but sold to the local market.

    The whole sh!t-fight would not have started if some cowboys hadn't started importing rusty and un roadworthy missiles from Japan and selling them on the local market with engineering approval & RWC from their mates.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    If it's the green car in perth your looking at .... Is it RHD ?? You can't tell which side the steering wheel is on. It's also listed on ebay US for $3000.
    yes thats the one im thinking about.

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    This thread and other like it are evolving the english language.

    I had never heard of the task of compliancing a car, but it now seems to be a fairly common phrase on the net in Australia.

    Jo

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    JBN
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    Jo, "compliancing" is the same as graft.

    You pay a shitload of money to someone who doesn't have a clue to tick boxes and give you a certificate.

    This certificate and more money gets you further up the ladder so that eventually you get a car, registered in your name with your address.

    In the future, when the authorities need more money, they can send you parking fines, speeding fines and if you are squeaky clean, they just send registration renewals.

    I think the best way to avoid all of this is to make your own number plate. I am currently working on FU KNOSE which I hope will fool the authorities into thinking the car is registered but without all the collateral damage that that comes when the number plate is associated with you.

    John

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    Default Compliancing in ACT

    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Hi Christ (with a monaker like that I am sure you would have no problems with compliance) did your engineer insist on side intrusion bars? If so, on both front and rear doors?

    From a safety point of view (nearness of door to driver, passengers; lack of strong anchor points), they are about as useless as bullbars on a pram. I have not seen any side intrusion bars on any other 2CV in Australia.

    One point to note in NSW. If the car is imported as a "private import" and is subsequently registered, don't let the registration lapse. I have had experience with a 1978 2CV, registered in NSW until 2000, then the rego lapsed and since then all the drama.

    John
    No, I am not the Messiah... a small typo in the name.

    The engineer did insist on side intrustion bars on both front and rear doors... because the relevant ADRs specify side intrusion bars. Nothing to do with safety. Morgans are also required to have side instrusion bars from the 1980s - and they hinge into wood at one end, and have a doorlock set in wood at the other....

    Chris

  21. #21
    JBN
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    Aaahhhh! ADRs - Australian Design Rules from a country that doesn't design cars. And in the near future will probably not build them anymore.

    John

  22. #22
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    If you live in South Australia be careful. Even if a car is complianced and wears the relevant import plates...... They will still refuse to register it. "They don't trust compliances done in other states" .... FFS: Most of these cars have been travelling roads around the world for at least 20years to begin with. Why would they suddenly be unsafe as soon as they enter South Australia.... The land of no roadworthies ever . My old XM featured NSW compliance plate *and* South Australian compliance plates. You see, the whole car had to be re-engineered and re-certified to be registered in South Australia...... Even though all that bull$hit had already been done in NSW.

    That green 2cv in Western Australia..... I'd be wary, my father spotted the headlight adjustment rod runs up the left side.... so it IS left hand drive. If the seller has so carefully hidden the side the steering wheel is on, imagine what else has been hidden.

    seeya,
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBN View Post
    Aaahhhh! ADRs - Australian Design Rules from a country that doesn't design cars. And in the near future will probably not build them anymore.

    John
    John: time for reality check.

    Carp, carry-on and bitch as much like. It won't make a scrap of difference to the motor reg people nor the bureaucrats.

    You have three choices:

    Don't drive car and have it as an ornament

    Drive it unregistered and at your pleasure and be prepared for and accept all penalties, if any.

    Play it by the book and beat the bastards at their own game. To get the vehicled complied and legally driveable at minimum expense.

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    Quote Originally Posted by DoubleChevron View Post
    That green 2cv in Western Australia..... I'd be wary, my father spotted the headlight adjustment rod runs up the left side.... so it IS left hand drive. If the seller has so carefully hidden the side the steering wheel is on, imagine what else has been hidden.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    I have seen this advertised as a LHD car and from the estate of the late Geoff Howatson. I'm not sure what's changed since the initial advertisement.

  25. #25
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donat View Post
    I have seen this advertised as a LHD car and from the estate of the late Geoff Howatson. I'm not sure what's changed since the initial advertisement.
    That's interesting, if it's one of Geoffs cars, it's probably quite good. Can you comply a LHD car in Australia these days I thought they had to be 30years old, so that cars not even close.

    seeya,
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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