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    Fellow Frogger! ds21bvh's Avatar
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    Default DS Coolant

    What is the recommendation here please guys...

    I used to run the straight corrosion inhibitor with no apparent issues, however some anti boil characteristics may be desirable up here in QLD....?

    I know Toyota coolant is good, but being OAT based it has a propensity to leak past the water pump seals (or at least the old design seals) and I heard that the OAT stuff can be an issue for barrel seals.

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    I'm after a coolant designed for old cars I guess...?

    Many thanks,

    Mark....

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    Mark,
    Don't use OAT, for a host of reasons.
    You can google the reasons.


    cheers
    richo

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    I've used green Nulon concentrate diluted accordingly in the D for years with (touch wood) no problems.
    Craig K
    2009 C5 HDi Exclusive

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    Just use a quality but plain and simple coolant. Ethyl glycol (the Green stuff) has been around for years and replaced as per instructions seems to have minimal adverse affects....Tectayol(?) have a Red coloured version that changes colour if combustion gases are present. The other hand you can use a corrosion inhibiter (Castrol) with Water Wetter, surface tension reducer. The rational behind this is that the less surface tension the greater the heat transfer, ie it acts like glycol in a 'reverse' fashion (it allows a greater heat transfer to occur, which one would normally see as a higher boiling point). Oh and rain water as the purer the water the better the heat transfer and less the prospect of any chemical reaction causing heartache.

    Brendan

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    Back on the hoary subject again can anyone recommend what is the best, most protective 'coolant' to use in a D?
    I go around in circles researching this, Penrite classic doesn't appear appropriate for a 70s D alloy head, Tectaloy corrosion inhibitor seems possible with rain/distilled, propylene v ethylene glycol IAT conventional type B ra ra ra, its really annoying not being able to get a clear idea of what's the solution, I've just rebuilt this motor so not too keen on feeding it some chemicals that will eat it! Help!

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    anyone? come on what is everyone using for coolant, I know what Craig is using!

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Your worrying about nothing... Just go with a brand name (quality) glycol based coolant. My father ran those small castol tins of concentrate for years in the old CX's, D's and R16's (with all alloy engines) with no issues. The main thing is to change it as required I just use the nulon concentrate and tank water myself.

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    shane L.
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    hmm, the OAT as commented on is not good, Tectaloy 60 or extracool concentrate fits the bill as type B conventional, but coolant is something worth getting right because it can do nasty stuff if you you use the wrong one, I would like to use the stuff Darrin at Citroenclassics recommends but nothing like that on the horizon here!

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    hmm, the OAT as commented on is not good, Tectaloy 60 or extracool concentrate fits the bill as type B conventional, but coolant is something worth getting right because it can do nasty stuff if you you use the wrong one, I would like to use the stuff Darrin at Citroenclassics recommends but nothing like that on the horizon here!
    they are either glycol or there not ..... regardless of brand, the glycol coolant ... should be glycol coolant My grandfather tells me years ago glycol was so cheap they used to buy it buy the drum and run the old renault 750's/8/10's on 100% glycol.... (that's when everyone else used tap water). Once it became "known" as a coolant it price increased dramatically
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    well there's SO MUCH conflicting information regarding what is the best coolant to use. Total Antifreeze was originally used in the motors in the seventies. Which means it has Glycol. Now there's (Ethylene/proplylene) all glycol. Darren at Citroenclassics notes propylene glycol has better test results for protecting aluminium over a period vs ethylene glycol (also toxic). Coolants with glycol aren't just glycol as such. Now Franzose recommend Gulf long life with silicates. Straight rust inhibitors such as Tectaloy and Nulon do not appear to have silicates in them. To complicate it all I was just onto Lou from Total Coolants in WA - not the multinational corporation Total that developed products with Citroen from 1969 onwards...(explained I had an older European alloy head motor with wetliners) and he suggest not using glycol at all as it runs motors hotter, antifreeze with glycol is designed to assist with hotspots and recommended by manufacturers for that purpose. So it just goes round and round. It gets more crazy the more you read!
    OAT is recommended Not to be used in older vehicles. It's got me stuffed what is the best thing to use.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    well there's SO MUCH conflicting information regarding what is the best coolant to use. Total Antifreeze was originally used in the motors in the seventies. Which means it has Glycol. Now there's (Ethylene/proplylene) all glycol. Darren at Citroenclassics notes propylene glycol has better test results for protecting aluminium over a period vs ethylene glycol (also toxic). Coolants with glycol aren't just glycol as such. Now Franzose recommend Gulf long life with silicates. Straight rust inhibitors such as Tectaloy and Nulon do not appear to have silicates in them. To complicate it all I was just onto Lou from Total Coolants in WA - not the multinational corporation Total that developed products with Citroen from 1969 onwards...(explained I had an older European alloy head motor with wetliners) and he suggest not using glycol at all as it runs motors hotter, antifreeze with glycol is designed to assist with hotspots and recommended by manufacturers for that purpose. So it just goes round and round. It gets more crazy the more you read!
    OAT is recommended Not to be used in older vehicles. It's got me stuffed what is the best thing to use.
    How about ... just grab any green glycol based readily available coolant and put in there .... It hasn't hurt for the last 60years, so I dont' see why it'll worry it now

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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    true. Liquid Intelligence or Evans waterless sound viable too! I dunno. I just remember the corrosion in the pump when I dismantled the motor and I thought there must be something better, maybe the pumps are just rubbish material.

    Also, running a car here in Darwin doesn't require a thing called antifreeze!

    just to make it more amusing, on Penrites site they explain the difference between A and B type coolants, A having glycol and B without... then if you look at Tectaloys site the 60 plus green product description it is described as a B type WITH glycol. So you can see why it all becomes so demented.
    Or is just me uncovering a conspiracy by manufacturers who just shove some dye in some water and have a laugh! I read back in the 90s in France a whole lot of wine was found to have ethylene glycol in it, maybe I should just pour some cheap French wine in, alcohol has a lower boiling point and the acids can take care of the corrosion, better use some chablis as it will be more like green than red, which clearly proves its OAT! far out.

    on second thoughts 10 litres of the Evans costs $250. JP Chenet Chablis looking more promising by the minute, thats $7.90 a bottle from Woolies. Might get one to drink while I'm at it, cheaper by the dozen?...


    actually it was Austrians making poison not the French, French would never do that!
    http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/1985_...l_wine_scandal
    Last edited by forumnoreason; 25th March 2015 at 02:20 PM.

  13. #13
    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    true. Liquid Intelligence or Evans waterless sound viable too! I dunno. I just remember the corrosion in the pump when I dismantled the motor and I thought there must be something better, maybe the pumps are just rubbish material.

    Also, running a car here in Darwin doesn't require a thing called antifreeze!
    it may have had tap water in it for years ... or coolant not changed for a decade ... or big air locks causing cavitation of the pump... you never know unless you replaced the pump yourself and owned the car for the entire time since
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


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  14. #14
    1000+ Posts forumnoreason's Avatar
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    i did replace the pump early on, Didn't change the antifreeze regularly though. Twice in ten years and it sat for 3 or 4 of those, so yeah my fault really.

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    I'm not convinced... For a starters... how much is it ? How well doesn't it transfer heat compared to good old tap water All the bullshit on that site and they mentioned nothing about how well it actually works as a coolant to transfer heat to the radiator.

    If it was as good as claimed.... all modern cars would be using it from the factory!

    with regards to the corrosion .... google 'stray currents' or similar with regards to cooling systems. there was an excellent article that used to be on aussiefrogs about it.

    nulon used to have a really lengthy (brilliant) download on the stray currents... this is all I could find though

    http://www.nulon.com.au/pdf/FS119%20...ing%20systems/

    seeya,
    Shane L.
    Last edited by DoubleChevron; 25th March 2015 at 03:00 PM.
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
    '72 DS21 ie 5spd pallas (last looked at ... about 15years ago)
    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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    I contacted Penrite and asked them about OAT coolants and put the OAT issue to them, They stated categorically that the original OAT's did cause problems with aluminium and seals in older engines, but they changed the organic acids and they are now safe for older alloys and seals.

    Of course you are talking to someone who wants you to buy their product.
    Gillian and Chris

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    Oh, and a Holden.

    Lasya, Tibetan goddess of the moon and beauty who carries a mirror.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasya View Post
    I contacted Penrite and asked them about OAT coolants and put the OAT issue to them, They stated categorically that the original OAT's did cause problems with aluminium and seals in older engines, but they changed the organic acids and they are now safe for older alloys and seals.

    Of course you are talking to someone who wants you to buy their product.
    OAT is a definite no no for wet sleeved engines. . .

    Ethylene Glycol coolant is fine, Propylene Glycol is possibly better yet.

    Cheers
    Chris
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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lasya View Post
    I contacted Penrite and asked them about OAT coolants and put the OAT issue to them, They stated categorically that the original OAT's did cause problems with aluminium and seals in older engines, but they changed the organic acids and they are now safe for older alloys and seals.

    Of course you are talking to someone who wants you to buy their product.
    Do NOT put OAT in there ... maybe if everything in the engine and cooling system was brand new and rebuilt .... But gee's, it's been immersed in glycol for upto 60years depending on the age of the DS .... Why change it to something that "might not" do damage, when the correct coolant is still available.

    seeya,
    Shane L.
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    '63 ID19 http://www.aussiefrogs.com/forum/showthread.php?t=90325
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    '78 GS1220 pallas
    '92 Range Rover Classic ... 5spd manual.

    Yay ... No Slugomatics


    Modern Junk:
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  19. #19
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    Theres glycol in OAT coolants, its in nearly everything!

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    Rain water is anything but pure!
    I live on tank water, fresh from the sky, have done for over a decade.
    When we lived down the road from Swanbank Power Station the rain water was so acidic that the wife's old silver plated teapots in the garden changed from black patina to shiny silver.
    Rain water is only as pure as how it is collected, the first few rains after the end of the dry season and "pure" rain water was a rather distinctive colour & taste!
    Now distilled water, or reverse osmosis water and your talking pure (but more expensive).
    Regards
    Rob

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    Latest is John at DS Motors Brissy recommends Tectaloy 90!
    Which adds fuel to this slippery debate as specs say as I just looked up ORGANIC!
    Tectaloy 60 sounds more convincing as it is conventional type B, ( IAT) or is it?...
    sob.

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    Ethylene glycol is not just an antifreeze. Yes, when mixed with water it reduces the freezing point to -45C (rather than zero for water out of the tap). However it is also an anti-boil, simultaneously increasing the boiling point to +190C. So it's useful in Darwin unless you have a 2cv.

    This website documents which Australian companies manufacture which chemical products...
    Chemicals produced in Australia
    If you scroll down to ethylene glycol you will see there is only one manufacturer - Orica. So irrespective of the brand/label in the shop, if the bottle of concentrate says "made in Australia", it appears certain it will be made by Orica (probably at Botany in NSW). Orica might make different grades/mixes for each of the myriad brands, but as they make about 2.5million tonnes of stuff a week at Botany, probably not as it would be too much fuss and bother for a very small quantity.
    --------
    Progress is fine, but it's gone on for too long.

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    Quote Originally Posted by forumnoreason View Post
    Latest is John at DS Motors Brissy recommends Tectaloy 90!
    Which adds fuel to this slippery debate as specs say as I just looked up ORGANIC!
    Tectaloy 60 sounds more convincing as it is conventional type B, ( IAT) or is it?...
    sob.
    You need to talk to Lance, John works on the modern stuff

    Cheers
    Chris
    74 D(very Special) >>Rejuvenation Thread<<
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    "Déesse" Roland Barthes, 'Mythologies', 1957

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    (Umberto Eco [Ed], The History of Beauty, Rizzoli, NY, 2004)

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    I'm considering trying Toyota red again. The Toyota coolants are IMHO the best you can get. I've been using both the pink and red in my daily drivers and there is no sludge, corrosion or any other undesirable side effects.

    The red is compatible with copper/brass/solder/alloy and is a more "conventional" mix, but I've not been able to find out definitively whether it's an IAT or a HOAT.

    I have Loctited barrel seals so OAT is not an issue.

    I tried it on the 71 several years back but the water pump started leaking. It was a rebuilt genuine pump with the old style seal. I've got those Italian aftermarket pumps fitted to both cars now so I'm hoping that the seal is up to the task.

    Cheers,

    Mark...

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    poured Tectaloy 60 into it today, only stopped when I noticed I hadn't hooked up the heater hoses! Lost only a trickle but after that all done up no leaks which was good. So Shane yes I agree just shove some type B green stuff with glycol in!
    Mission accomplished.
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