CX Door trims. What is the solution?
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    Fellow Frogger! meinkiev's Avatar
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    Default CX Door trims. What is the solution?

    Can anyone suggest what is the best solution for refurbishing CX Series I door trims? We all know that they shrink and crack and pull away from the door. So what are the best ideas to remedy this? I thought it may be best to clamp them flat and take a fibreglass mould of a good one to produce a fibreglass copy and then reupholster this? If anyone has a better idea, please let me know?

    I am not very worried about keeping my car original, so I am also wondering if I can use CX Series II door trims. Will they fit?

    Also, my CX has a 2500 Diesel fitted. Can I add a turbo and intercooler from a late Series II to it, and then exchange fourth and fifth gear from the same late Series II box? Will it work?

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    Thanks,
    Shane

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meinkiev View Post
    Can anyone suggest what is the best solution for refurbishing CX Series I door trims? We all know that they shrink and crack and pull away from the door. So what are the best ideas to remedy this? I thought it may be best to clamp them flat and take a fibreglass mould of a good one to produce a fibreglass copy and then reupholster this? If anyone has a better idea, please let me know?

    I am not very worried about keeping my car original, so I am also wondering if I can use CX Series II door trims. Will they fit?

    Also, my CX has a 2500 Diesel fitted. Can I add a turbo and intercooler from a late Series II to it, and then exchange fourth and fifth gear from the same late Series II box? Will it work?

    Thanks,
    Shane
    Some people have made fibreglass moulds I believe (so somewhere in Australia there may be moulds for making new fibreglass Series 1 door trims. Others have fitted Series 2 trims to Series 1 cars. I have some as new trims in the garage but they aren't totally straight. On my car they are a bit cracked but it's not my highest priority job (leaks....).

    We'll be interested to hear what you do.

    Cheers
    JohnW

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    Fellow Frogger! meinkiev's Avatar
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    Thanks John, I will not be doing anything just at the moment, as I am living overseas, but if I discover something ground-breaking, I will telegraph it to all.

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    I have often thought what would happen if you pulled them straight and then took them to a joinery company that does vacuum wrapped kitchen doors, then get them to vacuum wrap the original trim, main problem could be getting a reasonable colour

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    1000+ Posts Greg C's Avatar
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    I had one done many moons ago from a company that did vacuum forming repairs on dashboards. If you can still find someone that does that as Balki suggested, that would be my recommendation. I don't know about colours but surely some brown/woody shades would be available
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Greg C View Post
    I had one done many moons ago from a company that did vacuum forming repairs on dashboards. If you can still find someone that does that as Balki suggested, that would be my recommendation. I don't know about colours but surely some brown/woody shades would be available
    Years ago, I was told the best solution was to saturate them with water and hold them straight until they dried (days to weeks I'd surmise!). I have new ones in their bags that aren't quite straight.

    Thanks for that informtion. Hadn't thought of that one. What a design....
    JohnW

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    Real cars have hydraulics DoubleChevron's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by meinkiev View Post
    Can anyone suggest what is the best solution for refurbishing CX Series I door trims? We all know that they shrink and crack and pull away from the door. So what are the best ideas to remedy this? I thought it may be best to clamp them flat and take a fibreglass mould of a good one to produce a fibreglass copy and then reupholster this? If anyone has a better idea, please let me know?

    I am not very worried about keeping my car original, so I am also wondering if I can use CX Series II door trims. Will they fit?

    Also, my CX has a 2500 Diesel fitted. Can I add a turbo and intercooler from a late Series II to it, and then exchange fourth and fifth gear from the same late Series II box? Will it work?

    Thanks,
    Shane
    I don't think anyone, anywhere has completely solved the series I CX door trim issue

    I think you will find the later diesels are massively strengthened. The bearings, block, crank will all be bigger. The early diesels are gear driven too, the later ones have rubber bands. The injection pump from the later car would need to be used, as it'll have the enrichment device that adds more fuel with boost.

    I'd suggest the easiest way to perform this change would be to fit the later motor and gearbox to the car. To do this would would need the different exhaust downpipes, 5spd driveshafts, 5spd selector rods, 5spd gearbox mount. It's a mechanical deisel, so I can see why the motor itself wouldn't just plug in and work

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    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Not the answer to the original question, but if you have solely warped trims I had success with the following when Stef suggested it / made the brackets years ago. Remove trim; spray via a pump pack the backing with water until it is just moist, then heavy weight as flat as you can (care at this point not to weight in a way that could crack the coloured section). Leave until dry, re-applying moisture and re-distributing weights repeatedly if needed until close to / flat. Then to prevent future re-warping, make up two brackets - one small L shaped one to fit at the top trailing edge of the trim and a longer more V shaped one to fit along the lower edge inside the trim. Carefully measure then screw one edge of the brackets to the door, and screw through the trim (where it is hidden when the door is closed) into the other edge of the bracket. Someone with an SM might post a photo of the trailing edge of their door trim, showing that this is the way they appear to be affixed.
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    They warp because the vinyl coating shrinks and pulls the card backing out of shape. No amount of soaking and weighting will remove the distortion because the issue of shrunken covering has not been addressed. Once the covering is removed it is easy to get the card backing to resume its proper shape. But then, how do you apply a new covering of sufficient quality to look original. This is the major problem! I tried it with papier mache and then cloth. I got rid of the distortion but could not achieve a satisfactory covering.
    It would seem that molds must be cast and that new vinyl vacc. formed to the mold then be applied to the card and foam base. I will have eternal admiration for anyone who manages to achieve this!
    Cheers Gerry

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    Ashtray Polisher donat's Avatar
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    I do recall French Car Care in East Brisbane selling fibreglass replicas of the CX door trims but this was nearly a decade ago, mind you. I'm surprised CX Basis in Germany haven't whipped up a batch or two in any of the colour schemes available. I'm only guessing someone like Citroen Andre in Holland would have NOS ones in their warehouse.
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    Administrator GreenBlood's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by donat View Post
    I do recall French Car Care in East Brisbane selling fibreglass replicas of the CX door trims but this was nearly a decade ago, mind you. I'm surprised CX Basis in Germany haven't whipped up a batch or two in any of the colour schemes available. I'm only guessing someone like Citroen Andre in Holland would have NOS ones in their warehouse.
    They do come up from time to time on ebay, usually in ones or twos so getting a full set in your colour choice would be like winning tonights lotto...



    Cheers
    Chris
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    They do come up from time to time on ebay, usually in ones or twos so getting a full set in your colour choice would be like winning tonights lotto...



    Cheers
    Chris
    They can always be vinyl sprayed to the correct colour. Often the ones that come up are for Prestige.
    Cheers Gerry

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    1000+ Posts Bruce H's Avatar
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    Distortion obviously does depend upon shrinkage, but if your trim hasn't gone too far the wetting, weighting and then securing with something that holds both the vinyl and the trim in place worked for me for the couple of years I ran that particular CX. How well it lasted after that I don't know, as the following owner wrote that car off about a year later.
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    1000+ Posts gerrypro's Avatar
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    The other question is, what methods can be used to preserve ones that are still in good condition??????????
    I hear that ''Armorall'' is a NoNo!!!!

    On the wetting of the base board trick. It may work on a door trim that is passable and has not yet begun to crack and peel. Most cars that are eligible for restoration have trims that are way past that stage. Therefore there needs to be a way found to re manufacture trims back to new standards, possibly using more modern UV resistant coverings.
    If this cannot be achieved the CX will become an extremely rare beast as most examples will go the way of the crusher for recycling.
    Last edited by gerrypro; 30th October 2012 at 09:25 AM.
    Cheers Gerry

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    Quote Originally Posted by GreenBlood View Post
    They do come up from time to time on ebay, usually in ones or twos so getting a full set in your colour choice would be like winning tonights lotto...

    Cheers
    Chris
    They do, but you do wonder whether they would be flat?
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    This has been mentioned before; the moulds for fibreglass doorcards have travelled from QLD o WA and I got a pair of fibreglass front doorcards that are possibly done with the said moulds.
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    I have the fibreglass moulds and was hoping to get my son to make me a set, then have them covered via a vacuum moulding process. He never was all that keen on fibreglass work and I've had no luck getting him to do it. If there is anyone in WA (southern) that can help then they are available. I think the moulds are only for the face - no backing mould. I can't check as they are in Perth.
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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac View Post
    I have the fibreglass moulds and was hoping to get my son to make me a set, then have them covered via a vacuum moulding process. He never was all that keen on fibreglass work and I've had no luck getting him to do it. If there is anyone in WA (southern) that can help then they are available. I think the moulds are only for the face - no backing mould. I can't check as they are in Perth.
    My recollection was that the moulds were indeed for the face. I'd forgotten they were "down South"!

    Like an earlier poster, I'm a bit surprised that Citroen Andre or CX Basis hasn't got to this one, given the Europeans' enthusiasm for good looks (not that we don't, but there are about 1,000 members of the French CX club if I recall correctly) and the size of the market.
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by rmac View Post
    I have the fibreglass moulds and was hoping to get my son to make me a set, then have them covered via a vacuum moulding process. He never was all that keen on fibreglass work and I've had no luck getting him to do it. If there is anyone in WA (southern) that can help then they are available. I think the moulds are only for the face - no backing mould. I can't check as they are in Perth.
    Thanks rmac, I am pleasantly surprised to see that this post has flushed these moulds out. I think that some (small) fibreglass business may be persuaded to do the work of copying, especially if there may be several after them. Actually I think it's not rocket-science, it's the old problem of time. When I get back to Oz and am ready to make a start I will contact you again if I may, and perhaps we can research a good solution? Shane S.

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    Fellow Frogger! meinkiev's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kimmo View Post
    This has been mentioned before; the moulds for fibreglass doorcards have travelled from QLD o WA and I got a pair of fibreglass front doorcards that are possibly done with the said moulds.
    Hello Kimmo,
    What is the end result of the new trims from the fibreglass moulds? Do they look good/sit flat etc.? Shane

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    Default Re: CX Door trims. What is the solution?

    Couple of photos.
    The doorcard attached in the wagon wreck is off from the clips for some reason. It would sit better on the door if the clips were properly pushed in. I am taking it off and putting them in the '79 C-matic I have at some point.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails CX Door trims. What is the solution?-uploadfromtaptalk1352096098770.jpg   CX Door trims. What is the solution?-uploadfromtaptalk1352096123764.jpg   CX Door trims. What is the solution?-uploadfromtaptalk1352096177466.jpg  
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    Fellow Frogger! meinkiev's Avatar
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    Thanks for the photos Kimmo. I hope this will be the answer to the door trim dilemma. Shane

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    Hmm... I'l like to look at these..... Where abouts in Perth? I am in the midst of re-building my workshop into something really good, so Citroen restoration is on hold for a few more months.
    My CX Gti door trims are in need of replacement. I attempted the "soak and bend" treatment many years ago, to no avail.

    Fibreglass and a trimmer is surely the way to go!

    Stuart Pekin

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    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    Hello Stuart, and best wishes for Xmas and the New Year.

    They aren't in Perth. Speak to Ross McGuinness!

    Best wishes for the workshop - I'll have to come and have a look sometime!

    I wonder if there is a market for a few fully trimmed door cards? I have four essentially new ones although not perfectly straight of course.

    Cheers
    Last edited by JohnW; 19th December 2012 at 10:06 PM.
    JohnW

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    Quote Originally Posted by gerrypro View Post
    They warp because the vinyl coating shrinks and pulls the card backing out of shape. No amount of soaking and weighting will remove the distortion because the issue of shrunken covering has not been addressed. Once the covering is removed it is easy to get the card backing to resume its proper shape. But then, how do you apply a new covering of sufficient quality to look original. This is the major problem! I tried it with papier mache and then cloth. I got rid of the distortion but could not achieve a satisfactory covering.
    It would seem that molds must be cast and that new vinyl vacc. formed to the mold then be applied to the card and foam base. I will have eternal admiration for anyone who manages to achieve this!
    Gerry, I have started work on my door cards, which are in pretty good condition, really. They are not cracked at all, and only mildly warped. I found some new universal plastic clips which can be made to fit the card holes, and they have a thimble shaped female socket which goes into the door. They seem to hold very well once inserted, which is what it needs to hold a warped card. But I am thinking that rather than risk damaging all the card holes by taking the old ones out and replacing with the universal ones, I will only use these where the damage is worst.

    So I am wondering if replacements for the original female plastic holders are available anywhere? These are part of the problem as they go hard over time and don't hold very well, and everyone just pushes them back in with a prayer and a wish and hopes they hold. If I can locate about 20 or 30 of these I think they will be better than replacing all the card studs?

    On the card holes where the plastic studs have pulled right out and are damaged, I have sanded the yellow plastic gooy material and card material around the stud holes in the cards, and am ready to use fibreglass matting around these, ready for the new universal studs. I feel if I can get it all set up with renewed studs and female holders, and use a hot air gun when fitting it, to stretch the vinyl covering, I hope I can get them dead flat against the doors and that they will stay that way.

    What can you tell me about the female stud holders? Are there any to be had? I have tried different ideas in place of the female holders, like 5mm plastic pipe, but they are not very satisfactory for some reason or another. Or should I try to use more universal studs and holders?
    I will detail my progress here when I start to fit them.
    Shane

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