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  1. #1
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    CARAVELLE

    There's a Caravelle being advertised in the Trading Post at the moment located in Brisbane.
    I haven't seen it yet but the body is described as "Rusty".
    Might be okay for as a parts car or for the very brave.

    Ren
    cheers!

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  2. #2
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    Hey Ren - wasn't that a Flouride advertised? Has anyone sussed this out pricewise?

    Also noticed a GS wagon there. These things are a treat to drive.

  3. #3
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Hey Ren - wasn't that a Flouride advertised?
    I think the Floride (Flouride is stuff that you put in toothpaste) and the Caravelle are the same. The Caravelle name was used in some markets (USA I think) and the Floride used in others but the cars are identical.

    I believe this vehicle is well beyond saving.

    Ren
    cheers!
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure. Mark Twain"

  4. #4
    Simon's Avatar
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    [quote]REN TIN TIN:
    think the Floride (Flouride is stuff that you put in toothpaste) and the Caravelle are the same. The Caravelle name was used in some markets (USA I think) and the Floride used in others but the cars are identical.
    Nearly but not quite. Caravelle was the name used in the US market to avoid upsetting those people not living in Florida.

    Euro wise though the Floride was introduced in 1959 with Dauphine floorpan and running gear, and four wheel drum brakes.

    In 1962 the R1131 Floride S and Caravelle (Floride S was hard and soft top with Floride roofline, Caravelle was removable hardtop with square roofline)were introduced using the R8 floorpan with balljoint front end, four wheel discs and of course R8 running gear with the radiator at the rear of the car.

    Quick external ID apart from the differing type numbers (R1092 for Floride and R1131/R1133 for Caravelle) is that the engine cover of the Floride is solid, with a vented panel between the tail lights and the Caravelle has a vent in the engine cover, with a solid rear panel between the tail lights.
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  5. #5
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    memo Ren (spelling cop) - differences to note:
    <table width = 100%>
    <tr>
    <td>Type</td>
    <td>Floride</td>
    <td>Floride S</td>
    <td>Caravelle 1100</td>
    <td>Caravelle 1100 S</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>Cylindrťe</td>
    <td>845 cm3</td>
    <td>956 cm3</td>
    <td>1108 cm3</td>
    <td>1108 cm3</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>Compression</td>
    <td> 8 : 1</td>
    <td> 9,5 : 1</td>
    <td> 8,5 : 1</td>
    <td> 8,5 : 1</td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>Puissance</td>
    <td> 40 ch ŗ 5000 tr/mn </td>
    <td> 44 ch ŗ 5500 tr/mn </td>
    <td> 55 ch ŗ 5500 tr/mn </td>
    <td> 58 ch ŗ 5400 tr/mn </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>Freins </td>
    <td> 4 tambours </td>
    <td> 4 disques </td>
    <td> 4 disques </td>
    <td> 4 disques </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>Carburateur </td>
    <td> Solex 32 PICBT </td>
    <td> Solex 32 PDIST </td>
    <td> Solex 32 DITA </td>
    <td> Weber DC 32 DIR </td>
    </tr>
    <tr>
    <td>Poids </td>
    <td> 760 kg </td>
    <td> 805 kg </td>
    <td> 815 kg </td>
    <td> 825 kg </td>
    </tr>
    </table>

  6. #6
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Graham,

    No, I'm not a spelling cop. You can make as many spelling mistakes as you like on anything else (I do) but I have this thing about spelling names correctly.
    Besides, there may be some kiddies in the audience and we wouldn't want them to grow up thinking that Regie Renault used to name their cars after a toothpaste additive.

    Okay, I stand corrected. blush The Floride and the Caravelle are not identical (although I still think they look almost the same) and the Caravelle wasn't sold in Australia so this thing being advertised is a Floride (or the remains of one). The different capacity and configuration of motors doesn't necessarily mean a lot. Renault often had different engines for different markets.
    The R12 was sold in Australia with a 1251cc motor (for a while) and sold in the US with a 1565cc motor. (Simon, correct me if I'm wrong.)

    Ren
    cheers!

    PS. Er, Graham. Is the huge blank space in your last post supposed to signify something?
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  7. #7
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    REN TIN TIN:
    Graham,

    and the Caravelle wasn't sold in Australia so this thing being advertised is a Floride (or the remains of one).
    The Caravelle was sold in AUS from 1963-1966. The Floride from 1960-1962

    REN TIN TIN:
    The different capacity and configuration of motors doesn't necessarily mean a lot. Renault often had different engines for different markets.
    The R12 was sold in Australia with a 1251cc motor (for a while) and sold in the US with a 1565cc motor. (Simon, correct me if I'm wrong.)
    Those motors quoted for the Floride/Caravelle are just the different models and were used in all markets. The 845cc Dauphine based motor was used in the Floride R1092. The R8 956cc motor in the R1131 Floride S and Caravelle and the 1108cc motor in the R1133 Caravelle and Caravelle S (Caravelle S having twin choke downdraft Weber and tacho).

    The 1251cc motor in the AUS market 12's until 1975 was because of odd Australian assembly rules. The 1565cc (later 1647cc) motor fitted to the US market 12 was because of their emission rules, it put out near enough the same amount of power as the Euro spec 1289cc 12.
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  8. #8
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Rapp on the knuckles to Simon for not explaining it clearly enough (not his usual self?) mallet - but the Caravelle and Floride were BOTH sold in Australia and were two seperate models; one based on the Dauphine; one based on the R8 floorpan as Simon alluded to.

    He merely explained why in the US, the floride was called something else.

    So - the car in question - could be either a caravelle or a floride depending on what model number it is (and whether it has been bastardised, which some of them have over the years; so called "floravelles").

    Simon did give valid ways to tell which was which, the other one which I think from memory he missed was that as the radiator is in front of the engine in the Floride, it has prominent air intakes in the sides of the car (in front of the rear wheels) whereas the Caravelle intakes air in through the bootlid and rear panel vents.
    KB


  9. #9
    1000+ Posts renault8&10's Avatar
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    Too quick on the draw Simon, you wrote your response while I was still thinking mine over!

    I'll have to mallet myself! mallet
    KB


  10. #10
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    renault8&10:
    Too quick on the draw Simon, you wrote your response while I was still thinking mine over!

    I'll have to mallet myself! mallet
    Now Simon, that American 12...was it a thin wasted descendent of the original 12? Or an emaciated 18 in 12 clothing?

    cheers!
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  11. #11
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    [quote]BogMaster:
    Now Simon, that American 12...was it a thin wasted descendent of the original 12?
    cheers!
    That would have to be the Chris Skase of 12's, an exile with an enlarged heart and a death caused by terminal emphysema.
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  12. #12
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Shit, not my day is it. Okay, let me see if I got this right. The Floride is based on the Dauphine floorpan and the Caravelle is based on the R8 floorpan.
    They had different motors but look much the same externally??

    Now let me see if I can get this right. The Australian R12's had to have a smaller motor because the engine capacities of two car had to differ by more the 25% otherwise they would fall into the same class.
    The R12 at 1289cc + 25% is 1611cc. The R16 was 1565cc so, for the Australian market the R12 engine was down-sleeved (is that the right word??) to 1251cc to give the 25% gap.
    1251 + 25% is 1564cc. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong)
    Now, the R12 for the American market had the 1565cc 807 motor with the non-crossflow head similar to the the one fitted to R16 TL. The bonnet on the USA R12's had a bulge to clear the Carby but it was on the opposite side to the R15TS and R17TL.

    Ren
    cheers!
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure. Mark Twain"

  13. #13
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    REN TIN TIN:
    Shit, not my day is it. Okay, let me see if I got this right. The Floride is based on the Dauphine floorpan and the Caravelle is based on the R8 floorpan.
    They had different motors but look much the same externally??

    Now let me see if I can get this right. The Australian R12's had to have a smaller motor because the engine capacities of two car had to differ by more the 25% otherwise they would fall into the same class.
    The R12 at 1289cc + 25% is 1611cc. The R16 was 1565cc so, for the Australian market the R12 engine was down-sleeved (is that the right word??) to 1251cc to give the 25% gap.
    1251 + 25% is 1564cc. (I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong)
    Now, the R12 for the American market had the 1565cc 807 motor with the non-crossflow head similar to the the one fitted to R16 TL. The bonnet on the USA R12's had a bulge to clear the Carby but it was on the opposite side to the R15TS and R17TL.

    Ren
    cheers!
    Now Renny, who knows about the bonnet on the American 12???

    But when it comes to the Floride Simon is dead right as is to be expected.

    Look under the engine cover and you would get the picture pretty quick smart. Ozzie Floride = Dauphine, Oz Caravelle = R8...spend a bit of time and it could be hard to pick. There are a lot of Florides that have been altered to R8/R10 specs....there is one that keeps coming up in the NSW Tradingpost that has been bastardised to include a BMW engine, a ZF 5 speed transaxle, Torana hubs and brakes and tail lights.....none of which is done terribly well. But there is a lot of potential in these cars.

    cheers!

    <small>[ 13 June 2003, 06:49 PM: Message edited by: BogMaster ]</small>
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  14. #14
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    REN TIN TIN:
    Okay, let me see if I got this right. The Floride is based on the Dauphine floorpan and the Caravelle is based on the R8 floorpan.
    They had different motors but look much the same externally??:
    Correct :-)

    REN TIN TIN:
    Now let me see if I can get this right. The Australian R12's had to have a smaller motor because the engine capacities of two car had to differ by more the 25% otherwise they would fall into the same class.
    The R12 at 1289cc + 25% is 1611cc. The R16 was 1565cc so, for the Australian market the R12 engine was down-sleeved (is that the right word??) to 1251cc to give the 25% gap.
    1251 + 25% is 1564cc.
    Collect an elephant stamp with that answer! :-)

    REN TIN TIN:

    Now, the R12 for the American market had the 1565cc 807 motor with the non-crossflow head similar to the the one fitted to R16 TL. The bonnet on the USA R12's had a bulge to clear the Carby but it was on the opposite side to the R15TS and R17TL.
    Very close so you get a tick, but not quite.

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  15. #15
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    [quote]BogMaster:
    Originally posted by REN TIN TIN:
    [qb] There are a lot of Florides that have been altered to R8/R10 specs....there is one that keeps coming up in the NSW Tradingpost that has been bastardised to include a BMW engine, a ZF 5 speed transaxle, Torana hubs and brakes and tail lights.....none of which is done terribly well. But there is a lot of potential in these cars.

    cheers!
    As an ex-Caravelle owner. Aaarrghhh. There can't be much potential left in a bastardised Caravelle with Torana hubs. Aaargghhh!!

    Aaarggh.

    JohnW
    JohnW

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  16. #16
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    [quote]JohnW:
    BogMaster:
    Originally posted by REN TIN TIN:
    [qb] There are a lot of Florides that have been altered to R8/R10 specs....there is one that keeps coming up in the NSW Tradingpost that has been bastardised to include a BMW engine, a ZF 5 speed transaxle, Torana hubs and brakes and tail lights.....none of which is done terribly well. But there is a lot of potential in these cars.

    cheers!
    As an ex-Caravelle owner. Aaarrghhh. There can't be much potential left in a bastardised Caravelle with Torana hubs. Aaargghhh!!

    Aaarggh.

    JohnW
    You are right John, the whole thing was bare metal covered in really thick surface rust....but amazingly there was a lot of original trim and those fiddly bit chrome fittings for the detachable hardtop plus an in tact soft top....needless to say I didn't buy it at the time as the price wasn't right, even though I needed the useful bits for the Floride carcass in my carport.

    However that someone could actually get all that shit to fit was fairly amazing...hence the "potential" comment. The end result in this particular case is unbelievably ugly, poorly executed and of course, a long way from finished mallet . The zf transaxle set up was interesting as it looked like the original Renault half shafts and suspension were hanging off it. However as there was a couple of inches of water running across the shed floor at the time it was hard to see how that had been achieved without having a bath.

    There seem to be a few kicking around overseas with Gordini rear ends, 5 speed boxes and crossflow motors of various sizes, definitely a desirable combo. Since 5 speed transaxles, Gordini rear ends and crossflow motors are so common cry I remain astounded that there aren't more of them about the place here in Oz.

    cheers!
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  17. #17
    Too many posts! JohnW's Avatar
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    BogMaster
    There seem to be a few kicking around overseas with Gordini rear ends, 5 speed boxes and crossflow motors of various sizes, definitely a desirable combo. Since 5 speed transaxles, Gordini rear ends and crossflow motors are so common cry I remain astounded that there aren't more of them about the place here in Oz.

    cheers! [/QB]
    That's true. A Caravelle with more poke would be quite nice. Not great hairy monster stuff, but significantly more grunt, delivered smoothly. They're gentle creatures, with poise, and don't deserve rough treatment!

    Then I wonder how stiff they are under serious power, even with both doors shut.......

    Cheers

    JohnW
    JohnW

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  18. #18
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    JohnW:
    BogMaster
    There seem to be a few kicking around overseas with Gordini rear ends, 5 speed boxes and crossflow motors of various sizes, definitely a desirable combo. Since 5 speed transaxles, Gordini rear ends and crossflow motors are so common cry I remain astounded that there aren't more of them about the place here in Oz.

    cheers!
    That's true. A Caravelle with more poke would be quite nice. Not great hairy monster stuff, but significantly more grunt, delivered smoothly. They're gentle creatures, with poise, and don't deserve rough treatment!

    Then I wonder how stiff they are under serious power, even with both doors shut.......

    Cheers

    JohnW[/QB]
    Yeh John, the workshop manual warns about jacking the rear end right up unless you have retaining jigs fitted to the doors. No doubt you could discretely strengthen the vehicle, but I can't see that it would be suitable for rough roading.

    Having a major accident in any rear engined Renault would be a bit of a problem, I reckon that a Floride or Caravelle would be that much less crashworthy. Even the metal capots aren't held all that securely.

    You are right they should be treated with care, but there is potential for a bit of fun with some gentle tweeking.

    cheers!
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  19. #19
    1000+ Posts REN TIN TIN's Avatar
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    Even the metal capots aren't held all that securely.
    Er. What's a 'capot' ?

    Ren cheers!
    "I cannot help but notice that there is no problem between us that cannot be solved by your departure. Mark Twain"

  20. #20
    1000+ Posts BogMaster's Avatar
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    REN TIN TIN:
    Even the metal capots aren't held all that securely.
    Er. What's a 'capot' ?

    Ren cheers!
    Sorry...the detachable metal roof. (it's detachable on both the convertible and non convertible versions.)

    cheers!
    Woo Hoo Honi ko'u 'elemu (Hawaiian)

  21. #21
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    BogMaster:
    REN TIN TIN:
    Even the metal capots aren't held all that securely.
    Er. What's a 'capot' ?

    Ren cheers!
    Sorry...the detachable metal roof. (it's detachable on both the convertible and non convertible versions.)

    cheers!
    Very detachable during your accident!!!

    I reckon the only way to have an accident in a rear-engined Renault is exactly ahead or exactly behind. We've tried the sideways accident! Relatively slow, pulled the front bumper off a medium sized truck with the door pillar in the R8. R8 was somewhat bent and doors torn (yes, torn). But we acquired a half R10 for $10 and for a modest $2,000 had the car rebuilt using a straight door pillar.

    The accident was in about 1984-5, repairs in about 1988 and I'm still driving the R8. Lucky it was a low speed accident.

    I'm very wary of serious modifications to these cars. They are delicate little flowers and don't have much strength in reserve if hit or crashed.

    JohnW
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