the value of 505s
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  1. #1
    nJm
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    the value of 505s

    I must admit I've been thinking about getting rid of my 505 this year as it has been nothing but trouble, and thought that considering I bought it for $4250 last year with 255,000kms (now has 271,000km) and have since spent $4k on it it should be worth still somewhere around the $3500 mark (hopefully!)

    Anyway, I've noticed that a few people are advertising 505 GRs with less than 200,000km for $3k, even one with a 5spd manual like mine! I guess it really isn't worth selling mine is it?

    On a similar note, I've seen nice condition 405s selling for as little as $4500 at dealers!

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    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  2. #2
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    I'd agree...

    Not worth getting rid of it.

    Looking at it logically, what could you replace the car with for the money you'd get? Nothing.

    Then add the potential amount you'd spend over the next three years (I guess if you've spent four grand there'll be little else to go wrong?), compared with what you might spend on the (devil you don't know...) replacement.

    The only other consideration is fuel savings, if there might be any.

    For my part, I keep them till they can go no more...

  3. #3
    nJm
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    Yeah.

    I've been having a few problems with oil leaks that just won't go away and a few probems with various carubrettors I've tried on it. But then I remembered all the time I've spent replacing every single light bulb on/in the carand other little things like that.
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  4. #4
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Nick,

    If you go and buy another used car you're back to square one, not knowing what needs to be done on it.

    Atleast with the car you have you know the condition of it and where you're at financially. You know what you've put into it.

    The only way to get your moneys worth on cars is to keep them for years and drive them alot.

    I know plenty of people who change cars every 12 months and alot of money goes down the drain each time they sell.

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  5. #5
    pur-john, not pew-john! peujohn's Avatar
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    I'd definitely steer clear of cheap early 405s.

    John
    John W

    1979 Peugeot 504 GTI 2.2 litre 5 speed - 72 kW at the wheels

    1974 Peugeot 504 TI
    - now on the road

    2009 Peugeot 407 HDI wagon - family car

    Previous: 2005 407 HDI manual sedan, 1980 504 GL, 1990 405 Mi16, 1977 504 GL Special, 1984 505 SRD Turbo



  6. #6
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    NJM, belive me i know somewhat how u feel.

    My poor old pug has not seen the road in allmost a month, and in the previous year it has probably spent allmost a quarter of the year on the driveway.

    I have spent a lot of time/money and effort on the car and hopefully if i get the parts on monday the car will ride once again, hopefully by the weekend.

    My parents and my friends believe that I should just cut my losses and get another car. People at uni have bombs, but their bombs have no class, mine does

    I know so much about this car and I am able to know all this stuff as the car is fairly simple and easy to repair. Parts are a little hard to come by as its not the car u find at a wreckers but every time I replace something I hope at least that it will be good for the forseeable future.

    I have come this far, can't/won't turn back now.

    When the pugs go they go, its the maintence that is the prob

    Best of luck

    James
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    1975 504 GL

  7. #7
    Fellow Frogger! frogs4ever's Avatar
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    Shobbz:
    NJM, belive me i know somewhat how u feel.

    My poor old pug has not seen the road in allmost a month, and in the previous year it has probably spent allmost a quarter of the year on the driveway.

    I have spent a lot of time/money and effort on the car and hopefully if i get the parts on monday the car will ride once again, hopefully by the weekend.

    My parents and my friends believe that I should just cut my losses and get another car. People at uni have bombs, but their bombs have no class, mine does

    I know so much about this car and I am able to know all this stuff as the car is fairly simple and easy to repair. Parts are a little hard to come by as its not the car u find at a wreckers but every time I replace something I hope at least that it will be good for the forseeable future.

    James
    What sort of parts have you had trouble getting? I've been pleasantly surprised at how easily and inexpensively (compared with parts for new cars) I've been able to get parts for my 1975 504 GL.

    eg: (all parts new unless otherwise stated)

    Ducellier distributor $180
    Fuel pump $50
    Sealed beam headlight $15
    Front parking/indicatior light covers $25 ea.
    Wheel caps (original, second hand) $10 each.
    Front brake pads $45
    Ignition coil $50
    Tyres 175/80 Michelins $136 each,
    Continental 175/80 $120 each
    Oil filters Purflux $17
    Automatic Transmission fully reconditioned with new bands, seals etc and reconditioned torque converter: total including remove and fit $980
    Front muffler, original specification $170
    Thermostat $15
    Radiator fan carbon brush $10
    Radiator fan thermo switch $12
    Castor arm bushes, steering rack anti-rattle kit and tie rod bushes, total including labour ~$200

    Most parts were available off the shelf or by overnight freight, Muffler and tires a few days wait to be freighted from the mainland (I'm in Tassie). Most of the bits were supplied by French Connection (thanks again Dave), others from French Car Care near Hobart. Michelins from Bob Jane, Continentals from a different mob who have no right to be fitting tyres....

    peugeot_ head_ban renault_
    2004 Clio Expression Verve 4sp auto -
    1984 Fuego GTX 5 speed (now a write off) -
    1976 504 GL auto (sold)

    French cars, Australian wine.

  8. #8
    Fellow Frogger! frogs4ever's Avatar
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    nJm:
    Yeah.

    I've been having a few problems with oil leaks that just won't go away and a few probems with various carubrettors I've tried on it. But then I remembered all the time I've spent replacing every single light bulb on/in the carand other little things like that.
    What was the original problem/symptom that prompted you to change carbies?

    Where is the oil accumulating / leaking from? I think I might have the answer to this problem. I had a mystery oil leak that turned out to be very simple and cheap to properly fix.
    2004 Clio Expression Verve 4sp auto -
    1984 Fuego GTX 5 speed (now a write off) -
    1976 504 GL auto (sold)

    French cars, Australian wine.

  9. #9
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    I feel your pain Nick cry , we use to have a 505gti and sold it in poor working condition for $500 . The car wasn't worth the trobule of maintaining as parts+service would be more than the price of the car. If we had the time we would have sold it of part by part, i mean the rims on the 505 gti are a classic :p and worth alot more than $500.

    It sad how alot of these pugs 505,405 and to a lesser extent the 306 depreciate so quickly .

  10. #10
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    306s don't depreciate that badly, do they?

    They're just impossible to sell on Aussiefrogs frown

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  11. #11
    nJm
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    I've been looking back through the service dockets from when dad had the car last year and it really has had nearly everything fixed! I'd say a lot of the money went into the mechanics dad was using ($80 p/hour labour!)

    It has had all suspension bushes changed
    4x tyres
    ignition barrel
    rebuilt dissy
    Complete rebuild of brakes (master cyl, calipers, lines, the lot)
    Clutch
    Clutch master cyl
    gear linkages

    the list goes on. Ironically the only thing that hasn't been touched is the engine! Appart from me giving it an oil change every 5,000km it has been fine. Actually, it is amazing considering the beating I've given it. Mind you, mine is still pretty 'new' with only 272,000km on the clock. I've got lots of fond memories too - the first car I got into a slight 4 wheel drift whistle
    Nick
    1983 Peugeot 505 GR


    "All of its cars from the 1.1 litre 205 through the ugly duckling 309 to the 2.2 litre 505 GTi had a rightness and a righteousness about them that turned every humdrum drive into a journey. Someone, I once wrote, in the bowels of Peugeot understands handling and how a chassis should feel." - Jeremy Clarkson

  12. #12
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    nJm:
    the first car I got into a slight 4 wheel drift whistle
    Are they the only memories? cheers!

  13. #13
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    Pug307:
    306s don't depreciate that badly, do they?

    They're just impossible to sell on Aussiefrogs
    My XR depreciated by $4500 over 2.5 years. I wasn't too happy about that. I noticed a big drop in 306 values when the 307 was released with its raving reviews and "European Car of the Year" awards.

    I didn't even give any of you guy a chance at buying my old 306 though :p

    I have to say the reason we still have our 504 is it's not worth selling, and it is mechanically perfect and never breaks down. It does have a small hole in the rear muffler at the moment but that can be sorted easily enough. At ~320 000km it has had its fair share of work over its lifetime (including a complete rebuild of the engine at 270 000km) so it's really only just run in in its second birth.

    The savings you'd get out of fuel economy of a newer vehicle would be so miniscule Nick, that it wouldn't be worth upgrading for that reason alone!

    Derek.

  14. #14
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    the thing i found and it's not possible for everyone is that i bought my GTi-6 new and bieng a new car from day one it is the longest i have ever owned a car
    i don't think i would ever buy another new car but it is something that when after reading this thread that i realised that i have never owned a car for a longer period than the current car
    for me if they drop a long way down in price it just gives me more reason to keep it
    the kids will grow out of their car seats one day and that gives me another excuse to keep it longer again then as they will have more room again for a while
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  15. #15
    Sense Pug307's Avatar
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    DeKa:
    Pug307:
    306s don't depreciate that badly, do they?

    They're just impossible to sell on Aussiefrogs
    My XR depreciated by $4500 over 2.5 years. I wasn't too happy about that. I noticed a big drop in 306 values when the 307 was released with its raving reviews and "European Car of the Year" awards.
    Gee, those pesky 307s

    Having said that, I feel for anyone hit with 607 depreciation. An ad for a 2003 607 with 5300km had $20k of depreciation in a matter of months!!!

    Depreciation is the expense that everyone forgets about. Unlike petrol, insurance or maintenance, you don't physically take cash out of your wallet periodically to pay for it, but it's the money you never get back come to selling it.

    The annoying thing for those with new cars is, it's the largest expense you'll ever be hit with.

    Bear in mind, depreciation in Australia is relatively mild compared to Europe.

    Peugeot 307 XS 1.6
    Aussiefrogged in MEL, PER, SYD, BNE & ADL.
    Rendezvous Adelaide 2005

  16. #16
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    Pug307:
    306s don't depreciate that badly, do they?

    They're just impossible to sell on Aussiefrogs
    Well in relation to what most of us would value the car at i think it's sad to see them go lower than 10K. I only bought my 306 xt for $11,000. Yes it may be fairly old (1996) when you look at the rate people in Australia buy new cars at, but i personally value a 306 xt a bit more than 10K. wink

  17. #17
    1000+ Posts purrr-geot's Avatar
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    pugrambo:
    the thing i found and it's not possible for everyone is that i bought my GTi-6 new and bieng a new car from day one it is the longest i have ever owned a car
    i don't think i would ever buy another new car but it is something that when after reading this thread that i realised that i have never owned a car for a longer period than the current car
    for me if they drop a long way down in price it just gives me more reason to keep it
    the kids will grow out of their car seats one day and that gives me another excuse to keep it longer again then as they will have more room again for a while
    I'd love it if my dad gave me a gti-6 eheh

  18. #18
    Gus
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    It may not be worth it as long as you have a car with a full service history, nJm, but have you thought about taking servicing matters into your own hands?

    When you start using second hand parts, doing work yourself, and only fixing things you know need fixing, car ownership gets a lot cheaper and more rewarding (IMHO).

    I spent about $4000 on my first 505 STI, in the first year I owned it, paying mechanics for all that work. If I had the car with the same problems now, I doubt total cost would top $1000, probably a couple-hundred less.

    Of course, you lose the bullet-proof satisfaction of knowing that everything is being looked after by an expert. Then again, that STI broke down more times in the year that a mechanic was servicing it, than in the 18 months I was doing it myself (and it ran worse!). wink

    A 504/505GR is, IMHO, close to the perfect car to learn to fix cars on. The only way to learn is to jump in and do it. When I got my first STI, at 17, (I'm only 20 now), I thought a gasket was some kind of weird container mallet .

    <small>[ 25 August 2003, 03:55 PM: Message edited by: Gus ]</small>

  19. #19
    Gone Fishin' Ray Bell's Avatar
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    Originally posted by Gus
    <strong>.....When you start using second hand parts, doing work yourself, and only fixing things you know need fixing, car ownership gets a lot cheaper and more rewarding (IMHO)

    .....A 504/505GR is, IMHO, close to the perfect car to learn to fix cars on. The only way to learn is to jump in and do it. When I got my first STI, at 17, (I'm only 20 now), I thought a gasket was some kind of weird container.
    Hear, hear!

    That's the way to keep car running costs down all right!

    Here's a little 'for instance' for you...

    Of a weekend I do a job which requires me to use my car. Usually I travel over 100kms each way to do this work, and I'm paid a travelling allowance of 52c a km to do this.

    Now, taking everything into consideration (depreciation, registration, tyres, bits and pieces I'll have to replace during the year, oils and fuel), I reckon I go close to 12c a km in my running costs.

    It is true that I do a pile of miles and therefore depreciation and rego are apportioned out pretty thinly, but still...

    So I'm driving along the highway at 100kmh going to work of a weekend spending 12c a km and getting paid 52c a km for doing so; a net 40c per km profit. At about 100kmh, I'm covering about 1.6km (roughly) per minute.

    Therefore I'm earning 60c a minute driving to work... and back!

    That would be halved if I paid people to work on my car... and I'd spend more time waiting around for the mechanics to do it than I spend at the moment doing it myself.

    The only thing I don't do myself, generally, is repair broken exhaust pipes... but I am learning to use my MIG welder...

  20. #20
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    Gus, IMHO R12's would be better to work on. Front suspension can be a pain, but engine and gearbox are (I'm guessing) smaller and easier to replace yoursself. Plenty of room around the engine too (pity about the starter motor under the manifold though....
    Rowan

  21. #21
    1000+ Posts Shobbz's Avatar
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    Great cars to work on.

    A jack some supports and a lot of time.

    Many rags always come in handy for me.

    Soon I will fix something that will stay fixed for longer than a week.

    Learning how to loosen rusty nuts soon! hahahah
    Previous
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    1975 504 GL

  22. #22
    Budding Architect ???? pugrambo's Avatar
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    nJm:
    I've been looking back through the service dockets from when dad had the car last year and it really has had nearly everything fixed! I'd say a lot of the money went into the mechanics dad was using ($80 p/hour labour!)

    It has had all suspension bushes changed
    4x tyres
    ignition barrel
    rebuilt dissy
    Complete rebuild of brakes (master cyl, calipers, lines, the lot)
    Clutch
    Clutch master cyl
    gear linkages

    the list goes on. Ironically the only thing that hasn't been touched is the engine! Appart from me giving it an oil change every 5,000km it has been fine. Actually, it is amazing considering the beating I've given it. Mind you, mine is still pretty 'new' with only 272,000km on the clock. I've got lots of fond memories too - the first car I got into a slight 4 wheel drift whistle
    keep driving it Nick
    replace or rebuild the engine when it dies
    same with the gearbox
    after that just keep driving it and learning different aspects of both driving and where what goes on the car and basic mechanical knowledge and over time save what you can and put it aside and once the car has gone beyond anymore repairs or you have saved enough money move onto something else then
    for what you paid for the car in the first place it is still cheap transport for many years driving
    if it is eventually run into the ground in a few more years and you have go all you can from it you have still had cheap, fun and safe transport
    3 x '78 604 SL

    1 x '98 306 GTi6

    1 x secret project

    1 x '98 406 STDT troop carrier and i don't care if it stinks, i don't sniff it's arse Death by wank tank

    1 x '99 406SV 5spd wagon, time to burn more fuel

    1 x 1994 605 SV3.0


    WTD long range fuel tank for 605

  23. #23
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    [quote]pugrambo:
    Originally posted by nJm:
    [qb]once the car has gone beyond anymore repairs or you have saved enough money move onto something else
    Short of a smash, poor care or being parked next to the ocean, I can't see Nick's 505 ever getting "beyond any more repairs". If it's still that good after 20 years, it can go another 100.


    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  24. #24
    Guru davemcbean's Avatar
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    Pug307:
    Depreciation is the expense that everyone forgets about. Unlike petrol, insurance or maintenance, you don't physically take cash out of your wallet periodically to pay for it, but it's the money you never get back come to selling it..
    Yeah the depreciation on my $100 505 is killing me! roll_lau

    Dave
    NZ Fleet
    1976 504 Ti
    1984 205 GT twin carb
    1991 205 SI 1.6GTI motor
    1994 106 Xsi
    1996 Mondeo V6
    Aus Fleet
    1955 203C
    1997 Civic Cxi (great allrounder- revy, flexible, nimble, comfortable , economical, simple and durable )

  25. #25
    Fellow Frogger! crosspug's Avatar
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    What can I add to this ??

    Not much, but.....

    Listen to Gus, I too spent approx $4000 on my STi in the first 2-3 years of owning it. At a reputable mechanic and it was stuff that genuinely needed doing so not being totally ripped off. I saw that car die before me because I watched it instead of helping the problem by doing something myself.

    But then I did a stupid thing, I got my second 505. And tore the other apart (as in one on road the other off). I have learned more in the past year than ever before.

    What did my last service cost me??

    Oil $25
    Oil filter $13
    Coolant $10
    Gearbox oil $12
    another piece of key steel to get that bloody gearbox plug out $10

    2hrs on and off.
    TOTAL; $70 + anything else I did.

    Bonnet is up every second day doing something so, whenever I see anything I tend to fix it right then and there. deal

    And what do I have for my efforts, a car that will last (hopefully) another 3 years at least, Pulls like a truck, sounds tuff (hehehe), has all creature comforts that work, and makes it so I enjoy driving it.

    Sure it has problems, its still got a dent, the gearbox is dying (I'll just get a 4 spd it if breaks, otherwise save for a rebuild), starter is slow (got a brand spanker sitting in my shed), but what can I expect I've spend max of $400 on the car in 9 months, bought it for $600 and have put 13,000Kms on a car that already had 436,000kms on the dial. Rego this year will be PI$$ easy (not $4-500 like before), the only problem is maybe one tyre.

    Why?? because my flat mate helped me get off my arse and actually do something, now I cannot stop.

    I've stopped saying how can I fix, and started to say how can I improve........ It's a nice feeling......

    But it won't last wink

    Jono

    Cars are big, scary, and FUN. If you do work on your car, just be thankful you don't own an STi...... Bugger of a car to work on.....
    1989 BX16Valve

    "Resting" 1983 505 STi

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