Chinese GP ***spoilers***

[PLAYLIFE]

And for the final round in Shanghai, China.

Who will be WCC? Can Montoya claim P3 in the WDC off Schumi? Schumi is on 62pts while Monty is on 60pts.

A few other shuffles mid-pack can happen in both WDC and WCC.

Looks like it will be a sunny weekend - no fully wet race this year!

[Zen]

I'll put my bets on Montoya beating Schuey to 3rd and McLaren taking the WCC honours off Renault.

Rich

[mistareno]

Montoya will start from 10 positions below his qualifying spot which will make his life difficult around Shanghai...

As for Renault...I wonder if the FIA would notice if they attached a tow rope between Alonso and Fisi's car :D

[PLAYLIFE]

A Renault 1-2!

Raikkonen looked to be very heavy, whilst MS made a mistake on his quali lap. Great laps from DC and Button.

http://koti.mbnet.fi/kolarit/pics/Shanghai_2005_F1_QLF_4.jpg
http://koti.mbnet.fi/kolarit/pics/Shanghai_2005_F1_QLF_5.jpg

[Sergetov]

Props to Renault! Will be an interesting race... Fisi will probably do a Trulli (slow everyone down) unless Kimi can pull off something fancy. It may all depend on starting fuel loads though too?

[supo]

Montoya will start from 10 positions below his qualifying spot which will make his life difficult around Shanghai...

As for Renault...I wonder if the FIA would notice if they attached a tow rope between Alonso and Fisi's car :D


Did Montoya lose an engine? I didn't see anything about it on the F1 site.

Scott

[mistareno]

Did Montoya lose an engine? I didn't see anything about it on the F1 site.

Scott

Ooops, sorrry my mistake, he failed to finish at Suzuka so had to qualify first... was thinking of the wrong rule :disappr:

[ry205]

Congrats to Renault!!!

:cheers:

[Pate]

Congrats to Renault!!!

For Ron Dennis I wish all the good while he is flying and crying back to Woking :)

Mr. Dennis was too important man to shake hands with Fisi and Alonso after Suzuka when Renault got the lead in constructors championship.

Wake up man, this is sport. How sporty are you? You just got your own medicine at the Fisi/Raikkonen pitstop incident.
I wonder which team invented earlier this year 'going-slow-to-pit-ahead-of-biggest-rival' strategy?? :D

[Sergetov]

Props to Renault for their performance at Shanghai this weekend.

As a McLaren fan obviously it was a little disappointing for me. Alonso was on fire, and Renault had their aggressive engine settings working very, very nicely. However before you beat your chest too hard Pate:

Montoya had to retire after hitting a drain grate. This is a disgrace to the Chinese since it happened earlier this year in the V8 supercars race there, with disasterous results (grate flew through air-intake, through the engine, through the firewall, between the drivers legs and ended up lodged in the rear seat :eek: :eek: ).

Fisi drove so slowly into the pits, thereby obstructing Kimi and Barrichello. This had fairly serious consequences for Kimi's chances of getting near Alonso IMHO. Which Fisi was duly punished for.

Now who is so obsessed as to flout the rules when Renault were already in an unbeatable position because the Chinese can't build a drain?

Renault won, good on them, go nuts! Ridicule McLaren as much as you like, but I can't help responding :blush: :)

[nate]

That Fisi penalty was rubbish IMHO, McLaren did it a few races ago, so they could pit both cars & not suffer by having one wait... now Renault do it & get screwed? same as that previous race's decision...
Two MAJOR mistakes in 2 of the most important races??? not happy...

but we won!!!
*Happy Dance*

Now lets all go & laugh at the Mercedes stand!!!

[Billy]

I thought Fisi was going to defend himself out of the way of those McLarens on the second or third lap...

he really is crap(ish), well at least one he seems to be one of the sookiest drivers - "I could be champion if they build the car for me..." - almost comparable to boo-hoo-barrichello... on their day they can drive a car very fast, but geez give your team some credit you ungrateful screw-ups!

I think it could have been interesting if Kimi had been able to pass Fisi at the beginning - Alonso still would have won tho,

and my rose-coloured-glasses of speculation says FIA screw up cost Alonso a pretty good chance of a Suzuka win (I don't think Kimi was going to get past him anywhere that day), Fisi acting up on the pit entrance was an annoyance that cost Kimi 3 seconds but come on it made no impact on the race result.

[Pate]

Props to Renault for their performance at Shanghai this weekend.

As a McLaren fan obviously it was a little disappointing for me. Alonso was on fire, and Renault had their aggressive engine settings working very, very nicely. However before you beat your chest too hard Pate:

Montoya had to retire after hitting a drain grate. This is a disgrace to the Chinese since it happened earlier this year in the V8 supercars race there, with disasterous results (grate flew through air-intake, through the engine, through the firewall, between the drivers legs and ended up lodged in the rear seat :eek: :eek: ).

Fisi drove so slowly into the pits, thereby obstructing Kimi and Barrichello. This had fairly serious consequences for Kimi's chances of getting near Alonso IMHO. Which Fisi was duly punished for.

Now who is so obsessed as to flout the rules when Renault were already in an unbeatable position because the Chinese can't build a drain?

Renault won, good on them, go nuts! Ridicule McLaren as much as you like, but I can't help responding :blush: :)

It was McLaren who invented that 'slowly-in-to-pits-while-teammate-gets-refuelled' and it was Kimi who executed it previously in Spa-Francochamps -> no penalty. The drivers who suffered back then were Fisi and Alonso, BOTH!

Last race in Suzuka Ron Dennis were among Kimi, Fisi and Alonso at the podium. He refused to shake hands and congratulate Renault drivers. At Shanghai Flavio Briatore congratulated Kimi from his second place.

CAN YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE!

PS. Nate, I will join you at McLaren Mercedes(ILMOR) stand to laugh at Norbert Haug, Ron Dennis and Adrian Newey. :roflmao:

EDIT: "Juan Pablo hit a loose drain cover and immediately after that he suffered an engine failure – the cause of which is still being investigated..."

There was a possibility that McLarens Ilmor engine would have blown anyway without hitting any manhole cover. Interesting thing is that BMW is going to take part F1 2006 with their own engine, own chassis and own team <- an achivement that Mercedes fails to do year after year. Team McLaren, chassis McLaren and engine Ilmor :D :D :D

Renault had everything Renault.

[Sergetov]

I know McLaren have been accused of such pitlane crimes. All I'm saying is, why did Fisi do it when they had the whole show already sewn up? It was totally without rational purpose. It was simply bloody minded, there is no other way to describe it. I don't blame them, but the way some of you carry on, the sun shines out of Renaults arse and McLaren represent the devil himself.

I take nothing away what-so-ever from Renault's win. Alonso has just been superb. I have especially enjoyed the way this season he has shrewdly carried his car around the track by the scruff of the neck when (at times) in reality it was technically inferior to the McMercs.

Oh and Alonso only won by 4 seconds so if Fisi cost Kimi 3 secs, then thats a shame IMHO. I prefer a close race any day of the week, even if the result would have been the same, but to each his own.

I'm certainly not going to defend Ron Dennis, Pate :)

[Pate]

Oh and Alonso only won by 4 seconds so if Fisi cost Kimi 3 secs, then thats a shame IMHO. I prefer a close race any day of the week, even if the result would have been the same, but to each his own.

I'm certainly not going to defend Ron Dennis, Pate :)

Alonso had bigger lead but he just cruised last 3 laps. He would have won with over 4 seconds even without Fisi/Raikkonen incident.

:cheers:

Pictures are powerful in explaining thingshttp://morgenpost.berlin1.de/images/2005/03/16/sport/97595_normal.jpg http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/40789000/jpg/_40789844_kimidennis_al203.jpg

[Sergetov]

They are indeed - they show who won, which helpfully, we already knew :)

Renault won, and as I said, congratulations to them! Alonso and the team deserved it. The jury is out on Fisi though.....

[chips]

:sleepy: I nearly fell a sleep watching that race :sleepy: so little going on.

[johnh875]

Lol, welcome to our world of watching F1 in the middle of the night (early morning I believe?).

It is scandalous that they have not fixed the drain grate problem! I think the Fisi drive through penalty was deserved, such "playing silly buggers" moves are not the way the game should be played.

I also think Michael Schumacher deserved more than a reprimand for spinning off the track behind the safety car. Driving standards in some areas need to lift, discipline behind the safety car and respecting yellow flags for two.

Not a bad race from Webber either, a good solid result.

[chips]

Lol, welcome to our world of watching F1 in the middle of the night (early morning I believe?).



It was on around 6am here in the uk,then rerun early in the afternoon,i watched it early in the afternoon :D :joker:

Looking back over this year,cant believe how quick this seasons gone by...roll on next season :)

[PLAYLIFE]

It was McLaren who invented that 'slowly-in-to-pits-while-teammate-gets-refuelled' and it was Kimi who executed it previously in Spa-Francochamps -> no penalty. The drivers who suffered back then were Fisi and Alonso, BOTH!

Last race in Suzuka Ron Dennis were among Kimi, Fisi and Alonso at the podium. He refused to shake hands and congratulate Renault drivers. At Shanghai Flavio Briatore congratulated Kimi from his second place.

CAN YOU SEE THE DIFFERENCE!

PS. Nate, I will join you at McLaren Mercedes(ILMOR) stand to laugh at Norbert Haug, Ron Dennis and Adrian Newey. :roflmao:

EDIT: "Juan Pablo hit a loose drain cover and immediately after that he suffered an engine failure – the cause of which is still being investigated..."

There was a possibility that McLarens Ilmor engine would have blown anyway without hitting any manhole cover. Interesting thing is that BMW is going to take part F1 2006 with their own engine, own chassis and own team <- an achivement that Mercedes fails to do year after year. Team McLaren, chassis McLaren and engine Ilmor :D :D :D

Renault had everything Renault.


When was the last time Ron Dennis ever congratulated the WDC if he wasn't a McLaren driver?

Renault, BMW, Honda...sure they now have their own teams, but they've just bought out another team (Benetton, Sauber and BAR). Ferrari and Toyota are the only ones who have built everything themselves from scratch.

[PLAYLIFE]

Lol, welcome to our world of watching F1 in the middle of the night (early morning I believe?).

It is scandalous that they have not fixed the drain grate problem! I think the Fisi drive through penalty was deserved, such "playing silly buggers" moves are not the way the game should be played.

I also think Michael Schumacher deserved more than a reprimand for spinning off the track behind the safety car. Driving standards in some areas need to lift, discipline behind the safety car and respecting yellow flags for two.

Not a bad race from Webber either, a good solid result.


I don't see why Schumacher needs a reprimand. Massa and DC were practically stopped on the track and to avoid an accident he spun his car. The most dangerous thing under SC is when cars are almost stopped on the circuit, especially when everyone is trying to keep the pressures and temperatures of tyres, brakes, etc up. He did a good job to avoid contact and not ruin other people's races.
The DNF was enough penalty as is.

If anyone was to receive a reprimand, it's Albers for smashing into Schumacher on the installation lap. That was an avoidable accident, it was pitiful driving from Albers.

[blue2th]

If anyone was to receive a reprimand, it's Albers for smashing into Schumacher on the installation lap. That was an avoidable accident, it was pitiful driving from Albers.

not according to the FIA!

http://www.gp2005.com/news/controller.php?lang=en&theme=default&team_id=1&month=10&seasonid=2&nextMode=GpNewsForm&news_id=15312

[Sergetov]

Did you guys see Alonso's engine catch on fire at the end? He says that the team were radioing to him that after the race he should make the crowd hear his V10 since its the last race with it. He said perhaps he got a bit carried away as the exhaust caught on fire!

[chips]

Did you guys see Alonso's engine catch on fire at the end? He says that the team were radioing to him that after the race he should make the crowd hear his V10 since its the last race with it. He said perhaps he got a bit carried away as the exhaust caught on fire!

Yea saw that,i couldnt keep a straight face watching Flavio shouting and jumping about saying his car was on fire Quick put it out!!!

:joker:

[Billy]

:sleepy: I nearly fell a sleep watching that race :sleepy: so little going on.

really? i'm suprised at the general low-key reaction to this race.

Perhaps that fantastic Japanese GP just raised everyone expectations - remember that was probably the best race of the last 5 or 10 year (despite FIA screw up that probably cos Alonso the win - which will only dissappoint the french and spanish contingent...)

But surely there was more happening at china than most races this year. Pre-race incidient and Schumi starting from the back... 2 safety car events (which I don't like persoanally, but it is something happening)... quite a few passing moves on ruebens... close racing between webber and massa at the end...

If only the Renault was built more fisi's liking we could have had a renault 1-2 ...

[PLAYLIFE]

not according to the FIA!

http://www.gp2005.com/news/controller.php?lang=en&theme=default&team_id=1&month=10&seasonid=2&nextMode=GpNewsForm&news_id=15312


Not the first time they've made a silly decision. Villeneuve's 25second penalty in the last race for instance, or Montoya's drive-through in Malaysia 2002.

[Pug-a-lug]

Renault had everything Renault.

eh?!? :confused:

Renault bought Benetton hook-line and sinker. It's an English team, based in England, run by English engineers with French engines.

It's a Benetton (which is actually Toleman) with a Renault badge.

Why it has become 'cool' to bag McLaren I have no idea (one of the most successfull and longstanding F1 teams in the history of the championship)...

..but to say that Mercedes are 'losers' because they don't build the car themselves... but Renault do... is drawing a VERY long bow to say the least.

The current Renualt F1 team is about as French as the successfull Williams-Renault cars of the 90's. Renault learnt the hard way from the late 70's - early 80's that it is very hard to take on the experienced F1 teams. Better to just buy an established team to beat them at their own game.

BTW once again Schuey has a brain fade behind the safety car and goes out on cold tyres. For the 'greatest driver ever'.. he still makes loads of silly mistakes.

[Sergetov]

There was a possibility that McLarens Ilmor engine would have blown anyway without hitting any manhole cover. Interesting thing is that BMW is going to take part F1 2006 with their own engine, own chassis and own team <- an achivement that Mercedes fails to do year after year. Team McLaren, chassis McLaren and engine Ilmor

Mercedes build McLarens engines.

Pug-a-lug is absolutely right. McLaren is the most successful team in F1 in terms of titles won (8 constructers, 11 drivers). Not that I'm here to toot McLarens horn (no pun intended), esp since Renault won deservedly, but yeah, you could at least give McLaren the same dignity :)

Anyway, I certainly look forward to next year. This season has been fantastic.

EDIT: McLaren claim that Montoya ended his race due to engine failure unrelated to the grate incident. Although the damage to the car was more extensive than just to the tire. :)

[Pate]

Mercedes build McLarens engines.

Ilmor = Mario Ilien and Paul Morgan are the company founders they have made racing engines at least 15-years. Morgan died few years ago while flying WWII fighter (Spitfire). Mercedes bought rest of the Ilmor shares 1-2 years ago. Mario Ilien is still the boss of that workshop in England.

It's like Panhard. Peugeot owns Panhard but Panhards are not Peugeots.

Just click and see the difference -> Panhard is not Peugeot (http://www.hrvatski-vojnik.hr/hrvatski-vojnik/912003/bpictures/Panhard.jpg)

[Pate]

When was the last time Ron Dennis ever congratulated the WDC if he wasn't a McLaren driver?

That's true! But what can you expect, it seems that question nr. 1 in McLaren job interview is "how stupid can you behave?"

Takuma Sato would make great McLaren team member :)

Why lot of people dislike McLaren is because of it's stupid personel.

Flavio Briatore "It was Ron Dennis who invented this fall whole the meaning of constructors championship. He has been babbling all the time that it is the contructors championship that really counts."
"Okay, it was us who won that title also" Flavio continued

"Alonso is the best driver. There is no sense in the Dennis' whining that 'Kimi is something like the moral winner' Flavio said.
"Kimi came second and that wasn't even the first time. Raikkonen has been four years with McLaren and hasn't been able to win a single championship." Flavio ended.

http://www.triera.net/upload/sport/formula%20ena/briatore_show.jpg Two heros.

PS. It's a shame that another hero's legacy (namely Bruce McLaren) is being so badly managed that they are a laughing stock.

[Pate]

Ron Dennis again: ""We can't go away feeling that we've massively failed because if you come to McLaren and you see our corporate overview, the vision statement for McLaren Racing is to compete in and win every grand prix. It doesn't say win world championships. It says enter every world championship race and win it."

Now it is not any more important to win any championships at all :)

He is such an embarrasment when he opens his mouth :roflmao:

[Sergetov]

Ilmor does not exist anymore.

Mario Ilien may still be there (I don't know), but its called Mercedes High Performance Engines Ltd now. They old Ilmor outfit has been totally split up and flogged off, the remnants are 100% owned by DaimlerChrysler.

EDIT: I know, Ron Dennis can be an absolutely tool.

[CHRI'S16]

PS. It's a shame that another hero's legacy (namely Bruce McLaren) is being so badly managed that they are a laughing stock.

propb coz he was a kiwi.... lol. But actually i agree Pate.

NON, of the modern F1 teams are anything anymore; they operate, run, sell and exchange like ANY other modern business.... There massive rebadging, renaming, deals etc in all the teams. They are all as bad, or as I like to say as good as each other when it comes to the polotics and logistics that is modern Formula 1.... - Chris

ps yes i'm still peeded i'm not an f1 driver.

[PLAYLIFE]

propb coz he was a kiwi.... lol. But actually i agree Pate.

NON, of the modern F1 teams are anything anymore; they operate, run, sell and exchange like ANY other modern business.... There massive rebadging, renaming, deals etc in all the teams. They are all as bad, or as I like to say as good as each other when it comes to the polotics and logistics that is modern Formula 1.... - Chris

ps yes i'm still peeded i'm not an f1 driver.


It's unfortunate but it has to be done.

If you don't adapt, then you go by the wayside like Cooper, Brabham, Lotus and the rest of them. You have to change with the times.

[Pug-a-lug]

Personally, I regard Ron's comments as essentially placating Kimi's ego, and trying to remove some of his justified frustrations at McLaren's under-achieving over the past few years.

When you think that Kimi almost won the championship in 2003 in a year-old car... and then spent most of 2004 blowing up engines... its no wonder that Ron is very hasty to keep Kimi on-side.

McLaren went backwards in a big way in 2004. Thankfully for F1 they are now back in the game, as without McLaren, Renault would have walked to the title and 2005 would have been as tedious as 2002.

Ron and Frank have a lot of mutual respect for each other. And didn't Ron Dennis give Stoddard that bottle of Champagne when Webber came 5th at Albert Park all those years ago?

Just because Ron and Flavio obviously do not get along, I wouldn't presume that the rest of the team owners dis-like Ron...

..Jean Todt excepted of course :D

BTW I've been a McLaren fan ever since 1986 so I'm probably biased. But I acknowledge that some of his recent comments regarding Kimi and the World Championship are out of line.

[PLAYLIFE]

Personally, I regard Ron's comments as essentially placating Kimi's ego, and trying to remove some of his justified frustrations at McLaren's under-achieving over the past few years.

When you think that Kimi almost won the championship in 2003 in a year-old car... and then spent most of 2004 blowing up engines... its no wonder that Ron is very hasty to keep Kimi on-side.

McLaren went backwards in a big way in 2004. Thankfully for F1 they are now back in the game, as without McLaren, Renault would have walked to the title and 2005 would have been as tedious as 2002.

Ron and Frank have a lot of mutual respect for each other. And didn't Ron Dennis give Stoddard that bottle of Champagne when Webber came 5th at Albert Park all those years ago?

Just because Ron and Flavio obviously do not get along, I wouldn't presume that the rest of the team owners dis-like Ron...

..Jean Todt excepted of course :D

BTW I've been a McLaren fan ever since 1986 so I'm probably biased. But I acknowledge that some of his recent comments regarding Kimi and the World Championship are out of line.


Ron is always good for a laugh. He always has an answer or comment for everything. All except once, and that was 1989 Australian GP in Adelaide when chaos ruled supreme at the re-start. He was asked about his views on the then FISA president Jean-Marie Balestre and for once he was lost for words :roflmao: "I think it's a case of....... .......... I think it's a case of.... ...... ...... .... people know where I stand, I have to watch what I say obviously."

[Sergetov]

"I think it's a case of....... .......... I think it's a case of.... ...... ...... .... people know where I stand, I have to watch what I say obviously."

:roflmao: :roflmao:

What a character!

[johnh875]

I don't see why Schumacher needs a reprimand. Massa and DC were practically stopped on the track and to avoid an accident he spun his car. The most dangerous thing under SC is when cars are almost stopped on the circuit, especially when everyone is trying to keep the pressures and temperatures of tyres, brakes, etc up. He did a good job to avoid contact and not ruin other people's races.
The DNF was enough penalty as is.

If anyone was to receive a reprimand, it's Albers for smashing into Schumacher on the installation lap. That was an avoidable accident, it was pitiful driving from Albers.
I missed the start of the race and haven't seen the Albers incident, so I can't comment.

I do realise that most of the drivers in the group contributed to Schumachers spin - I think that driver behaviour behind safety cars at all levels of racing needs to be improved, we have seen the Todd Kelly incident in V8SC and there have been many in FFord (eg Wanneroo last year), so I think when there is actually a crash (as opposed to a near miss) then sanctions should be imposed, it might achieve something...